Ethanol, corn prices and whining janitors.

[Alice]

It sure beats heading out to the golf course and dropping the kids off for Hillary's villiage to raise.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...I doubt seriously that It Takes a Village was directed for golfers needing child care...

I believe it was for children needing hope...

Alice

 

[aplusmnt]

It sure beats heading out to the golf course and dropping the kids off for Hillary's villiage to raise.

We live 3 miles from golf course, we drop the kids at golf course for the day and we head off to the village :lol:

 

[SCRUBS620]

Drive around a bit in this part of the cornbelt and you will notice something... Ground that was harvested for hay in the 2006 growing season has been plowed up to get ready for corn planting. 3.00 corn or 4.00 corn will equal a lot less acres of hay being harvested in the next year so expensive corn will drive all feeds along with it as people scramble for substitutes...

If a bunch of acres are devoted to corn next year the price will come down. I think part of this spike is just the boys in chicago passing alot of paper between themselves. They buy it on paper as futures which drives up the price of the real commodity. I do not remember the exact multiple but the amount of corn traded per year versus the amount actually produced was astounding. I would not want to be someone who relied heavily on hay either way Maybe this will make some people get rid of those good for nothin horses they keep ;-)

 

[Gate Opener]

aplusmnt, thank you for not hiring illegals.

I know there is a lot more to your job than cleaning. You should call yourself a businessman instead of janitor. You have to be knowledgeable to run a business.

It is a misconception that cleaning people are stupid and poor. I'm sure there are some but most of the cleaning people I know are college graduates that can make more money cleaning than they can in their field of study, myself included.

I haven't been following this argument so I can't take sides but I did happen upon this part and had to say something.

 

[Wewild]

aplusmnt, thank you for not hiring illegals.

Now we thank folks for not breaking the law.

 

[SCRUBS620]

I found something like what I had read previously. This is an encyclopedia excert from an article explaining how futures work.


"An annual average of 23,600 million bushels of grain futures traded between 1884 and 1888, or eight times the annual average amount of crops produced during that period. By comparison, an annual average of 25,803 million bushels of grain futures traded between 1966 and 1970, or four times the annual average amount of crops produced during that period. In 2002, futures volume outnumbered crop production by a factor of eleven."

These traders drive up the price because they want to line their pockets. If the report for the number of acres of corn planted goes way up next year it is going to scare alot of these traders into selling their positions to keep their gain or avoid a loss. Fewer traders will want the future contract at an elevated price, the futures price will come down and the price of an actual bushel of corn will then come down. The same thing happened this year with oil. The traders were looking for reasons to pump up the price so they could make money. It wasnt that there was suddenly half as much oil or twice as much demand. Show me a reason that was qouted for the huge spike in gas and I will show you a pile of bullsh!#. The best part is that we got to pay at the pump so they could have their fun.

 

[Gate Opener]

aplusmnt, thank you for not hiring illegals.

Now we thank folks for not breaking the law.

It is a shame that it is that way. Shouldn't be that way.

 

[Wewild]

The same thing happened this year with oil. The traders were looking for reasons to pump up the price so they could make money. It wasnt that there was suddenly half as much oil or twice as much demand. Show me a reason that was qouted for the huge spike in gas and I will show you a pile of bullsh!#. The best part is that we got to pay at the pump so they could have their fun.

Thank you. Now I understand.

I always thought that OPEC's price per barrel for the most part controlled the price of fuel. That and the seasonal increases that I attributed to greed on someones part.

 

[SCRUBS620]

The same thing happened this year with oil. The traders were looking for reasons to pump up the price so they could make money. It wasnt that there was suddenly half as much oil or twice as much demand. Show me a reason that was qouted for the huge spike in gas and I will show you a pile of bullsh!#. The best part is that we got to pay at the pump so they could have their fun.

Thank you. Now I understand.

I always thought that OPEC's price per barrel for the most part controlled the price of fuel. That and the seasonal increases that I attributed to greed on someones part.

OPEC does not set price per barrel. It sets production limits. Limited supply means better prices. The actual price increase that we saw far outweighed OPEC's control. In fact I believe OPEC actually raised the qouta's but it had little affect on the price per barrel. The trading game is more about psychology than anything else. I am not saying that supply and demand are to be minimized in the scenario of prices for comoditties but the prices swing much more rapidly and to a greater extent than what supply and demand can account for. Futures trading is to blame for these swings to a great extent. If you were basing all of your assumptions on a mean number that discounted these swings it would all be driven by supply and demand but that is not the way it works in the real world. Anyway I think we will see a reversal of the high corn prices to some extent especially if alot more acreage is put into corn production.

 

[Angus Guy]

Scruds you have probrably made the best post concerning these higher prices. Isn't it amazing that farmers/ranchers are the only business that does not set the price for their commodity. We rely on the boards of trade to figure what we get. We try to get the best baragins on our inputs. And we still need to hope mother nature will be kind.

 

[memanpa]

it appears to me the one doing all the whining is not A+ but the one who started the post!
a+ keep on posting, i may not agree with you all of the time but at least you bring up very good points

 

[mwj]

I have read this board for as long as it has been around I THINK and it seems the same arg. come around in cycles. The thing about this one is timing .Go back when fats were a dollar a lb and the sky was the limit on feeders. Find a post at that time about the shame of feeding that cheap subsidised corn to those gold plated cattle :roll: If you can not remember selling feeders for less than 75 cents you have not been in this buis. very long. Feed hay and drive an electric tractor if that makes you happy but do not be to quick to say that you are the only one in the world that are not reaping any gain from the gov.

 

[IL Rancher]

What the traders are looking at is for the last few years the world has consumed more corn than it has produced and carryover has gotten smaller and smaller. From what I have seen the projected increase in acres and thus yield for the nation will not keep up with the projected increase in demand. You can say it is not supply and demand but what the traders are looking at is exacty that. More demand than supply so they speculate that it will be 3.95 or whatever in the fall...

 

[somn]

First off If I wanted Welfare money it is out there to be had, Cattleman are not the only ones that have Government money at there disposal. All Kinds of free money for small businesses. Heck all I have to do is make the wife the President of A-Plus and I can get even more free money and special unfair bid opportunities for a woman owned business.

As far as corn subsidies go under the current system I benefit just as much as anyone, I get cheaper beef and groceries at the Grocery store. I am just honest enough to know it is not right for the Government to make decisions on rather a business fails or succeeds. Right now buy propping up the Ethanol plants they are picking the Oil companies over and above the Cattleman.

As far as taking risk I know how to take 100% risk, I quit college started a Janitorial business. Borrowed $50,000.00 with not guaranteed contracts at 21 years old. No rich family, no safety net. Got married a year later, bought a home. And got not welfare check to pay the way. I could have applied for Government grants and HUD housing but I chose the old fashion way, by myself. Since I was 22 I have hand no net less than $100,000 a year. Employed no less than 5 employees with most years being around 10.

I constantly fight everyone and there brothers thinking they can become Janitors for easy cash. I fight illegal immigration instead of using it.

Every day is a fight when you have a profession that is on the bottom of the totem pole of professions.

I know that it would be hard for Farmers to make the turn around from subsidies, the government has it so messed up and has you so in need of them. I do not even blame a farmer for getting them, the system is so screwed it might be hard to stay in business with out them.

But what i do whine about is people like you that think it is the way it should be. That it is a good thing. You are so rooted in hand outs you do not have what it takes to actually take a risk and do something with out the Government being there as your safety net. You are like them poor welfare people that think they can not survive with out the food stamps and welfare check.

And that is they way the Government likes it, the more they have people like you thinking the only way is with their help and checks you will never Cowboy up and be your own man. You are just like a kid still working for his daddy, only difference is Uncle Sam is your daddy.

Grow up and do something on your own, then you will be experienced enough in life to know what you are speaking of. Until then I only respect and take advice from business men that do things on there own, not with daddy's help or their Uncles Help (Uncle Sam that is)!

Ps. Do you still work for your Daddy? I got a feeling you might not take no risk personally?

It was 19 years ago that I rented my first farm. Yes I had help from daddy. Most 15 year olds will need help from daddy. You know the beauty of government payments they are there for everyone to see I'm really sick of hearing how I receive so much welfare from the goverment.
http://www.ewg.org/farm/region.php?fips=27091
Last name Morrow First name Scott. I never took a government payment until I needed more land to haul manure on to meet MPCA guidelines. When it came time to rent the land other farmers had an advantage by using corn subsidies and could pay higher rent. Instead of whining about it like you do I entered into the goverment farm program and took the subsidy thus leveling the playing field. Do I feel bad about it no I don't. Am I glad that other farmers took the subsidy yes I am it made the corn I needed to buy for the feedlot cheaper. But again you won't understand that because you have no idea how the cattle industry works. By the way I've forgot more about cattle than you will ever learn. How can I be so sure about that? One look at your attitude towards the industry says it all. And just how much risk is it you take cleaning toilets Aplusmnt? Has the amount you received for cleaning toilets ever dropped 35% overnight I doubt it. I lost 35% of my revenue over night just about 1.3 million. Try those boots on sometime see how much conviction you have for the industry then.

 

[aplusmnt]

First off If I wanted Welfare money it is out there to be had, Cattleman are not the only ones that have Government money at there disposal. All Kinds of free money for small businesses. Heck all I have to do is make the wife the President of A-Plus and I can get even more free money and special unfair bid opportunities for a woman owned business.

As far as corn subsidies go under the current system I benefit just as much as anyone, I get cheaper beef and groceries at the Grocery store. I am just honest enough to know it is not right for the Government to make decisions on rather a business fails or succeeds. Right now buy propping up the Ethanol plants they are picking the Oil companies over and above the Cattleman.

As far as taking risk I know how to take 100% risk, I quit college started a Janitorial business. Borrowed $50,000.00 with not guaranteed contracts at 21 years old. No rich family, no safety net. Got married a year later, bought a home. And got not welfare check to pay the way. I could have applied for Government grants and HUD housing but I chose the old fashion way, by myself. Since I was 22 I have hand no net less than $100,000 a year. Employed no less than 5 employees with most years being around 10.

I constantly fight everyone and there brothers thinking they can become Janitors for easy cash. I fight illegal immigration instead of using it.

Every day is a fight when you have a profession that is on the bottom of the totem pole of professions.

I know that it would be hard for Farmers to make the turn around from subsidies, the government has it so messed up and has you so in need of them. I do not even blame a farmer for getting them, the system is so screwed it might be hard to stay in business with out them.

But what i do whine about is people like you that think it is the way it should be. That it is a good thing. You are so rooted in hand outs you do not have what it takes to actually take a risk and do something with out the Government being there as your safety net. You are like them poor welfare people that think they can not survive with out the food stamps and welfare check.

And that is they way the Government likes it, the more they have people like you thinking the only way is with their help and checks you will never Cowboy up and be your own man. You are just like a kid still working for his daddy, only difference is Uncle Sam is your daddy.

Grow up and do something on your own, then you will be experienced enough in life to know what you are speaking of. Until then I only respect and take advice from business men that do things on there own, not with daddy's help or their Uncles Help (Uncle Sam that is)!

Ps. Do you still work for your Daddy? I got a feeling you might not take no risk personally?

It was 19 years ago that I rented my first farm. Yes I had help from daddy. Most 15 year olds will need help from daddy. You know the beauty of government payments they are there for everyone to see I'm really sick of hearing how I receive so much welfare from the goverment.
http://www.ewg.org/farm/region.php?fips=27091
Last name Morrow First name Scott. I never took a government payment until I needed more land to haul manure on to meet MPCA guidelines. When it came time to rent the land other farmers had an advantage by using corn subsidies and could pay higher rent. Instead of whining about it like you do I entered into the goverment farm program and took the subsidy thus leveling the playing field. Do I feel bad about it no I don't. Am I glad that other farmers took the subsidy yes I am it made the corn I needed to buy for the feedlot cheaper. But again you won't understand that because you have no idea how the cattle industry works. By the way I've forgot more about cattle than you will ever learn. How can I be so sure about that? One look at your attitude towards the industry says it all. And just how much risk is it you take cleaning toilets Aplusmnt? Has the amount you received for cleaning toilets ever dropped 35% overnight I doubt it. I lost 35% of my revenue over night just about 1.3 million. Try those boots on sometime see how much conviction you have for the industry then.

Did not realize I had a bad attitude about the Cattle Industry. This whole argument started because of the debate that the Government is demanding that oil companies put a percentage of ethanol in their gas, which due to this government regulation involving the oil companies it is hurting the Cattleman by causing speculators to go crazy in corn.

I know enough about the cattle industry to know that subsidies are not necessary, just people like you are scared to do business with out them. So you actually turn into the whiner as soon as someone like me points out the mis use of our tax dollars you start whining about how fair it is and how bad you need them and how it helps the Cattleman. You are so scared that you will loose the welfare checks you start whining at the first sign of people having a conversation about misused tax dollars.

Do I benefit from Tax dollars, yes I get Public Schooling, Police force, fire department and Paved highways to drive on. I also get an Army protecting my way of life as they are now in Iraq. These are the things I benefit through my taxes as I should and every other American. These are the things are tax dollars are intended for. Not for the investment into private businesses such as Corn, Ethanol or Feedlots.

You have been so caught up your whole life with first Daddy helping you, then Uncle Sam you can not see that Public Money has no place in Private Business. Don't feel bad though there is Millions of others like you that can not break the welfare cycle they been living in the projects and waiting by the Mail box at the first of month generation after generation much like you.

You might have forgot more about Cattle than I have ever learned. But I have learned one valuable lesson though. Do not be owing to anyone for your Cattle, be it dad, banker or Uncle Sam. Then what I do own will be mine and owned with a clear conscience. I will stick to this principal and do alright with my limited knowledge. ;-)

Ps. Do not forget the mail will not run tomorrow since it is New Years day. Your check should be in the mail on Tuesday though ;-)

 

[somn]

Tuesday looks to be bad also something about the presidents funeral. Your more into the political whining than I am you know what I'm talking about.

 

[aplusmnt]

"Instead of whining about it like you do I entered into the goverment farm program and took the subsidy"

lmao This has to be the blue ribbon comment of the whole debate. You should get this put on your door mat for all to read. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

 

[somn]

"Instead of whining about it like you do I entered into the goverment farm program and took the subsidy"

lmao This has to be the blue ribbon comment of the whole debate. You should get this put on your door mat for all to read. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

you aren't smart enough to look at the link I sent are you