How do you select for easy doing cattle? Do you look at epd's( which epd's), do you look at the cattle from which you buy replacements? I ask because I know that my cattle would not look like they do now on just grass and hay. I feed corn silage and alalfa baleage and a ground corn, soybean meal,ddg feed everyday. I would like to get some of those easy to feed cattle.
easy fleshing cattle
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If we buy a cow or heifer it's pretty much a crapshoot. For retained heifers we pay attention to the dam and how the heifer grows after weaning when they go to nothing but pasture. Easy fleshing is a double edged sword. When the forage base is poor they will do better then others but when the forage is better wuality they will get fat, I mean REAL FAT. That can lead to foot and leg problems and possible fertility and calving issues.
Aaron
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Agree with Dun. Buying is a crapshoot, unless you know the man behind them. When retaining, run the cattle on the roughest, poorest ground you can find and keep the ones that do the best in those conditions. It will work.
However, like Dun said, if you completely flip your management and feed excessively, those easy keeping cattle will get pretty lardy. :cowboy:
However, like Dun said, if you completely flip your management and feed excessively, those easy keeping cattle will get pretty lardy. :cowboy:
You don;t have to feed them. Our toxic fescue as either hay or forage is all ours get and they;re toads. I'ld be afraid to see what they would be like if they got the kind of feed most poeple think is required.Aaron":24bhs7uf said:
greatgerts
Well-known member
As far as being easy keeping, we try to go with bulls that have been DNA tested for Feed Efficiency. It is not the biggest factor, but it does have some weight on the decision.
Why buy a bull if he looks good but you will have to feed him constantly? We have done very well with this in the past, and have had some calves in the top 8% in FE. This, plus culling out what does not gain like the others has helped. I had 2 bulls a year ago that were born a day apart. At weaning, they weighed 35 lbs different (the older weighed more). 2 months later, there was only a 5lb difference with them having the same amount of grain/hay available (I was halter-breaking both of them). Since the younger one was doing so much better, I looked at my DNA results and sure enough the one that was gaining better had better FE numbers.
I'd go with a breeder that has been doing the DNA testing and culling out the hard keepers.
Why buy a bull if he looks good but you will have to feed him constantly? We have done very well with this in the past, and have had some calves in the top 8% in FE. This, plus culling out what does not gain like the others has helped. I had 2 bulls a year ago that were born a day apart. At weaning, they weighed 35 lbs different (the older weighed more). 2 months later, there was only a 5lb difference with them having the same amount of grain/hay available (I was halter-breaking both of them). Since the younger one was doing so much better, I looked at my DNA results and sure enough the one that was gaining better had better FE numbers.
I'd go with a breeder that has been doing the DNA testing and culling out the hard keepers.
Santas and Duhram Reds
Well-known member
we are suckers for bulls that have been gain tested.
novatech
Well-known member
I was very fortunate in that I was able to select my cattle from a group that I took care of for someone else. He was the type of guy that thought you could squeeze a profit out of a cow with no input. I bought his older proven stock that held up to his overstocked environment. If you cannot select from cattle that you are not familiar with then you must have the discipline to cull.Aaron":3t23rm2q said:
It does not necessarily have to be fed, just better forage will do the same. But that is probably what you meant.
JRGidaho`
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Buying bulls from a place that doesn't baby their cows is a good starting place to build a herd of easy keeping cows. By not babying, I mean a beef cow should never receive anything other than range, pasture, and hay. I would prefer if they never got hay, but most people haven't made it that far yet.
When I buy bulls, I probably spend 90% of my time looking at the cow herd and cow records. If I don't like at least 90% of the cows I see in the pasture, I wouldn't buy a bull there. If I'm satisfied with the cows, I'll spend about 5% of my time looking at the paperwork, and 5% looking at specific bulls.
If you're buying females, it's the same thing. Look closely at the cow herd they are coming out of and find out as much as you can concerning how they are fed. An easy fleshing cow should never need anything besides the basic pasture & hay package.
One key to not letting easy keepers get fat is remember you can run a higher stocking rate of easy keepers than hard keepers. Keep your cows in the condition you want by how much pasture you allocate.
Mineral supplementation is necessary if your soils are mineral deficient. If they're not, feeding mineral has little effect on cow condition and performance.
When I buy bulls, I probably spend 90% of my time looking at the cow herd and cow records. If I don't like at least 90% of the cows I see in the pasture, I wouldn't buy a bull there. If I'm satisfied with the cows, I'll spend about 5% of my time looking at the paperwork, and 5% looking at specific bulls.
If you're buying females, it's the same thing. Look closely at the cow herd they are coming out of and find out as much as you can concerning how they are fed. An easy fleshing cow should never need anything besides the basic pasture & hay package.
One key to not letting easy keepers get fat is remember you can run a higher stocking rate of easy keepers than hard keepers. Keep your cows in the condition you want by how much pasture you allocate.
Mineral supplementation is necessary if your soils are mineral deficient. If they're not, feeding mineral has little effect on cow condition and performance.
Thanks for the replies, by what I am reading I need to cull my thinner cows, keep replacements from my fatter cows,and get a bull with a high feed converstion rate. Maybe after many years I can have cows survive on just a hay and pasture diet, am I correct?
JRGidaho`
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c farmer":1l10cbm8 said:
c f
You want cows that will thrive on just pasture and hay, not just survive. But, yes, you should get there with the strategy you just outlined.
j
Jogeephus
Well-known member
c farmer":r7p02sdc said:
Yes, but the time frame will be dependant on how hard and how consistantly you cull. It doesn't have to take many years.
SRBeef
Well-known member
c farmer":b0w6h9zf said:
I don't want to start another "cow size" thread here but I think it is a gross over simplification to just say "cull my thinner cows, keep replacements from my fatter cows". What I have found is that sometimes it is the thinner cows that make you the most money. The fatter cows just eat more without producing a proportionately better calf.
There is much more to it than that.
It doesn't take "many years" to have cows that can do well on just hay and pasture if you get the right ones from the right places and right sellers initially...
jmho. Jim
fargus
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You can keep your easy doing cows from getting fat just by changing your feeding schedule. We feed once every 4 days. The cows have no feed in front of them for the last 12 hours or so, and go around "cleaning up" the stuff they pulled out of the feeder, etc. That way everyone gets full 3 times, and spends a half day scratching. Your really easy doing (or boss cows) don't get real fat this way. You will find your bred heifers and smaller cows will still stay in very good condition. The poor doers will look still look crappy, as they are looking for corn that ain't there.
I have some real nice conditioned cows and some thin cows the way I feed now. I am trying to get away from feeding grain for now and maybe later stop corn silage and have cows that will do good on just baleage and dry hay and minerals.
fargus
Well-known member
dun,
I wish I could do that 365 days a year. My comment was aimed at those who need (or think they need) to feed in a yard. When on pasture ours graze what and when they want, too. I look forward to later in the season when the quality of grass goes down. The cows are cleaner, no squirts.
Even when we bale graze they have no fresh feed in front of them for a while. It forces them to do a better job of cleaning up what they were given, and helps out with the variation in herd BCS scores.
I wish I could do that 365 days a year. My comment was aimed at those who need (or think they need) to feed in a yard. When on pasture ours graze what and when they want, too. I look forward to later in the season when the quality of grass goes down. The cows are cleaner, no squirts.
Even when we bale graze they have no fresh feed in front of them for a while. It forces them to do a better job of cleaning up what they were given, and helps out with the variation in herd BCS scores.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
dun":21wbr18z said:
I have been trying the buy low (but not tooo low) and cull hard method. This means I usually come home with thin rwf cows or small rwf hiefers. Most of them pack on alot of weight after worming and a couple weeks of good grazing. The thin hereford cows I bought in November look really good now (expect for 1 cronic with lung damage) and they were laying outside with snow on their backs last night. It was about zero with a 10 mph wind...
I look for reasons to cull and I end up with about 75% of the cows and about 85% of the heifers after one calving season.
Does the wooly coat on a hereford give more insulation than a shiny Angus coat??? Sure looks that way from the snow depth.
Our angus wooly up as much as the herefords, I think it has more to do with fat under the hide then the coat. Once that hair gets wet it doesn;t do anything but the fat still offers protection from the coldStocker Steve":342yh6tr said:
novatech
Well-known member
Off subject, but some people feed in a yard or sacrificial area to keep from overgrazing or tearing up a pasture. I think back when dun fed hay he said he liked to feed on rock outcroppings. Those sacrificial area can end up being the best parts of a pasture.fargus":29248v1p said:
Sometimes it is not the quality of the grass but the high water content.
