Dumb and dead

[alohacattle]

Hawaii is the 50th State of the United States of America, it joined the Union on August 21, 1959. I'm certain that California is also the 31 state, which was admitted on September 9, 1850. It seems we are in fact part of the same Country.

 

[alohacattle]

I can't see what he writes unless someone qutes him but for clarity I meant in my particular geographical area by "this country" but the same is true for much of the west.

Clearly, Alan up there in NW Oregon must not be part of the WEST.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Just off the phone with my mother in law. This morning while feeding one of the guys found a cow down a small ravine stuck at the bottom and unable to get up. They had about 2 inches of rain last night so it's too muddy to reach her even with the Zetor 4 wheel drive. She had the vet come out and he administered all he could in the way of helpful meds (I have no idea what so don't ask) but they ended up leaving her there in the hopes she's work her way free.

I'm pretty sad about the situation but even if I was there I don't know what I could do to help. Inyati can vouch for what the ground in northern Kentucky turns into when it's saturated and you get down in a wash. Slick doesn't come close to describing it.

 

[Anonymous]

I can't see what he writes unless someone qutes him but for clarity I meant in my particular geographical area by "this country" but the same is true for much of the west.

Clearly, Alan up there in NW Oregon must not be part of the WEST.

You didn't answer my question inbred. How many names do you hide behind? And why is it you have to hide behind them?

 

[E in PA]

I am going to jump on you to hook. All I wanted was a picture or two. This thread is 5 pages and still no pics!!!

 

[Anonymous]

The only one I have is of the dead cow in the bog. Sorry. When I went there sunday to catch her, treat, and fence the bog, the others werent around and I was pressed for time. Ill go through the pics I have and if I don't have one of her ill try to get some next time

 

[Jogeephus]

It is, if the vet will sign off. Waiting to hear back.
Calving, owners dogs, gunshots by owners or reps, are not covered. Sink holes are if you can verify who sank?????

I'd be surprised if the insurance company pays. I looked at the Hartford policy and it is about what I expected and will pay like most policies. Most are designed to pay for the nonpreventable things like lightning, floods, drowning from floods, hyperthemia or suffacation from blizzards, barns collapsing due to weather and other stuff that is out of your control. This mudhole would be classed as a known on-site hazard and would be a foreseable and preventable problem. Your fencing it off after the fact confirms that you were aware of this so unless you can convince them the fence was up before the cow got in the mudhole or if it got hit by lightning or some other cause that was totally out of your control then I think you are better off to just take the lick. Afterall, once you subtract the $500 and the vet bill, your time and fuel, how much are you going to gain by making a claim and what do you stand to lose?

 

[Cabo]

Hook, the only way that one is not ever going to lose cattle is to not have any. You are doing it the way that you think is best for you so just moon the naysayers.

 

[Isomade]

I have always noticed the difference with which the cattle business is viewed by those with less than a hundred head and don't plan to get any bigger and those who have more and run it as a business. There is a world of difference in the philosophy of the 20 head guy and the one who does it for a living. The small guy can't understand the thought process of the guy who does it for a living, and the guy who does it for a living vaguely remembers when he thought like the 20 head guy but realizes he will never understand unless he gets big enough to do it for a living.

 

[hillsdown]

It is, if the vet will sign off. Waiting to hear back.
Calving, owners dogs, gunshots by owners or reps, are not covered. Sink holes are if you can verify who sank?????

I'd be surprised if the insurance company pays. I looked at the Hartford policy and it is about what I expected and will pay like most policies. Most are designed to pay for the nonpreventable things like lightning, floods, drowning from floods, hyperthemia or suffacation from blizzards, barns collapsing due to weather and other stuff that is out of your control. This mudhole would be classed as a known on-site hazard and would be a foreseable and preventable problem. Your fencing it off after the fact confirms that you were aware of this so unless you can convince them the fence was up before the cow got in the mudhole or if it got hit by lightning or some other cause that was totally out of your control then I think you are better off to just take the lick. Afterall, once you subtract the $500 and the vet bill, your time and fuel, how much are you going to gain by making a claim and what do you stand to lose?

It depends on the adjuster Jo, if he sees it as "entrapment" they may just pay out . But Hartford is usually a tough sob when it comes to paying out iffy claims . I have a neighbor that lost 20 head last year due to falling through the ice , they refused to pay out because the owners should have fenced off "the only water source for the cattle" due to the intermittent unseasonable warm weather . The only mortality insurance I have ever carried were on the flush cows , and that was through cooperators. Much cheaper than Hartford for the same policy , and it pretty much covered your animals for any kind of death except sickness . Coop was around 55 a year per head and Hartford wanted around 375 for the same allotted amount .

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I have always noticed the difference with which the cattle business is viewed by those with less than a hundred head and don't plan to get any bigger and those who have more and run it as a business. There is a world of difference in the philosophy of the 20 head guy and the one who does it for a living. The small guy can't understand the thought process of the guy who does it for a living, and the guy who does it for a living vaguely remembers when he thought like the 20 head guy but realizes he will never understand unless he gets big enough to do it for a living.

2x.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have always noticed the difference with which the cattle business is viewed by those with less than a hundred head and don't plan to get any bigger and those who have more and run it as a business. There is a world of difference in the philosophy of the 20 head guy and the one who does it for a living. The small guy can't understand the thought process of the guy who does it for a living, and the guy who does it for a living vaguely remembers when he thought like the 20 head guy but realizes he will never understand unless he gets big enough to do it for a living.

Are you saying that people that run under a 100 head don't run it as a business?
I can flat out tell your wrong there on that one. Actually in Texas it is the small operator that keeps it a viable business as they make up over 90% of the cattle held in the state. I don't own any Welfare Cattle never have and never will.
Now I was never a big time Cowman like yourself most I ever ran was 37 so I guess I can move over in the dumb ass class.
Ole Belle doesn't make money here she' leaving on the next trailer out of here. I am probably tougher on what get's charged against the cow than most. I have had year's I have made 50 buck's a head to over 200. Do I have to run cattle to eat NO! You can bet your last red cent the day I take out of my saving's account to support a cow they will be leaving on the next truck out of here.
Edit. That has alway's been one of the major problem's we have had is the disdain for each other as an industry.
When I was selling bull's the little guy's money was just as good to me as the big guy's.

 

[James T]

Who said the 2nd was down,Alan. I just said it was sick.
Second, out of everyone here, raise your hands if you've ever had one die that in hindsight you could have prevented some how. How bout you Alan, ever have one die that you could have prevented? Go back to babysitting your cows and let your significant other handle the sack. How would you have controlled one sick cow on 200 acres of thick stuff at the most extreme end of the facility to treat it? Was it ideal, no. Is the cow alive and treated. Yep. You tell me how you would have done it better. Ill wait on baited breath for your response.

Never had a cow die yet, knock on wood, I know it happens, I try to cull before they get to that point. With luck never because it was stuck in the mud for too long. Lost a very few calves before, due to neighbor dogs, hard births, etc.,but as of yet no cows. My point is you lost a cow that struggled in the mud because you have a place your not close enough to watch. So my hand is up.

I don't get it Alan. A guy shares an experience that everyone who reads about it learns from and yet some feel there is some sort of need to castigate him. He lost a cow. The operative word is "lost". He's already been hurt by the experience so why kick him some more? We all learn from bad things that happen in our immediate environment and act accordingly (most of us do anyway). Because Hook shared the experience, I now know to be more aware in my own situation. And, if he had not shared it I might not have learned anything about the pros and cons of the insurance issues. Hillsdown has a very good sig line about judging others. I like that a lot of folks hang their a$$es out there and share things that have happened to them. Without them, we wouldn't learn a dang thing that might improve our lives.

 

[dun]

The thing that some people lose sight of is the difference in managment is in many ways dictated by environemnt. We manage our herd much different here in MO then we did in the eastern Sierra foothills. There we ran a pair per 300 acres and we would only see some of the cows once a month. Would have liked to do it more but the terrain and area made it impossible. When we pulled them off to move them to the home place it would take a bunchof us 2 weeks solid of riding to gather them and get them down to the loading chutes. Anything over 95% of what we had turned out was considered a good deal. Some had died, some we wouldn;t find until the next year. On the other side of the Seirra a friend of ours had 150k plus acres that he owned. Each year we would take one area, usually governed by geographical limits and work that area to round up. Took 4 years to work the entire ranch. Wasn;t unusual to find 7-8 year old bulls that had been missed a couple of roundups when we would work an area. In MO with just 240 acres broken into 15-30 acre grazing areas we see the cows every day even if it's just a drive through. On the other farm here its' broken into 2 80 acre parcels. Since the cows tend to group up into smaller groups and scatter we don;t see all of them every day even if we check every day.
The point that I've belabored is situations are different for the same producer even with 2 farms only 12 miles apart there are different management practices.

 

[Alan]

Keep in mind this is not just about a dead cow, it's about a small time operation being able to take care of their cattle. I'm not talking about the big outfits that range cattle on several hundred acres. I criticized more than just a cow that suffered in the mud on a small parcel of land ...... Yes 200 acres is a small parcel especially with a 4 wheeler.

Hook, I'm curious how you get water to those cattle with just deep mud where water use to be.

 

[highgrit]

Good post James T.

 

[Anonymous]

According to your logic Alan, anyone who's ever had a cow die from something preventable is guilty of neglect. Get off your high horse Alan.
They have a lake to drink out of

 

[heath]

Keep in mind this is not just about a dead cow, it's about a small time operation being able to take care of their cattle. I'm not talking about the big outfits that range cattle on several hundred acres. I criticized more than just a cow that suffered in the mud on a small parcel of land ...... Yes 200 acres is a small parcel especially with a 4 wheeler.

Hook, I'm curious how you get water to those cattle with just deep mud where water use to be.

You are truly clueless.

 

[Alan]

According to your logic Alan, anyone who's ever had a cow die from something preventable is guilty of neglect. Get off your high horse Alan.
They have a lake to drink out of

Same one you just fenced off? Not on a high horse and I think Dun's post said it well management styles for different areas. He just didn't mention the bad management part of it. Remember I criticized you for three things not just a cow that died (as stated many times, if you have cattle you'll lose one every now and then). My problem is you have cattle you live an hour away from and no one to watch them. How many days will they be in the road when they get out before your aware of it? 200 acres is not a huge range land operation were folks truly may not see their cattle for long periods of time.

 

[Alan]

Keep in mind this is not just about a dead cow, it's about a small time operation being able to take care of their cattle. I'm not talking about the big outfits that range cattle on several hundred acres. I criticized more than just a cow that suffered in the mud on a small parcel of land ...... Yes 200 acres is a small parcel especially with a 4 wheeler.

Hook, I'm curious how you get water to those cattle with just deep mud where water use to be.

You are truly clueless.

Another well thought out argument, thanks for your input.