Double Muscled

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houstoncutter

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Did I read this right, "satisfaction of the consumer is foremost". If that's the case wouldn't all meat be aged as it used to be pre mid seventies ?

Little older than some off you. Ate at cheap cafe's when ii was younger and also bought cheap cuts of meat to cook on weekends. All of those steaks were tender and flavorful. Pray tell why do you think an aged elk or deer carcass taste's better? It surely has nothing to do with marbling.
 

Nite Hawk

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houstoncutter- interesting thoughts on meat flavor. I for one have complained that it seems like the "modern" meat --beef and pork, the flavor just isn't what it used to be. Alot of the pork you buy nowdays is dry and flavorless like a hunk of wood, and I remember
store bought pork with a great flavor, and it seems even beef flavor isn't what it used to be either.
Sort of blamed the feed they were putting into the animals nowdays. Few years ago fattened out a nice pig on barley, and got it butchered and it had good flavor, not like the stuff in the stores.
Any thoughts out there on the feed they are pumping into the animals nowdays and on how it might effect flavor???
 

robert

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houstoncutter":1i0t88dg said:
Did I read this right, "satisfaction of the consumer is foremost". If that's the case wouldn't all meat be aged as it used to be pre mid seventies ?

Little older than some off you. Ate at cheap cafe's when ii was younger and also bought cheap cuts of meat to cook on weekends. All of those steaks were tender and flavorful. Pray tell why do you think an aged elk or deer carcass taste's better? It surely has nothing to do with marbling.

Yes, and that's what I said, carcasses are not hung for 7 to 10 days to allow the natural processes to tenderize the meat, so in it's place there is 'aging' of meat packaged within 24 hrs of kill, which is why marbling is extremely important to tenderness and why, if carcasses were actually hung marbling would be less important to overall tenderness and eating quality/satisfaction. Don't get hung up (excuse the pun) on this being a breed issue, I'm talking in general about beef quality, how it is measured and why not trying to push one breed over another.
 

3waycross

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Red Bull Breeder":198o0si4 said:
Marbling has less than a 10% effect on tenderness acording to a marc study i read once.

I would agree.

I also think that beef is better in most ways than it ever was 40 to 50 years ago. Sorry Cutter but I think you are remembering the idea of beef more than the reality.

On the other hand Pork in general sucks compared to when i was a kid. Now that is changing to a certain extent with the resurgence of Heirloom breeds and the realization that marbling matters just as much in pork as it does in beef. I am selling a whole lot more boutique pork than i was even 5 years ago.
The big buzzwords in pork are Berkshire and Kurabota. There is also some Hampshire being marketed lately.

FWIW Kurabota pork chops are currently going for close to $11lb WHOLESALE. :shock:
 

TexasBred

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3waycross":1ea7n7g3 said:
The big buzzwords in pork are Berkshire and Kurabota. There is also some Hampshire being marketed lately.

FWIW Kurabota pork chops are currently going for close to $11lb WHOLESALE. :shock:

Guess there is slim to no chance of finding that down at the corner carniceria.
 

slick4591

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3waycross":12m2drgj said:
The big buzzwords in pork are Berkshire and Kurabota. There is also some Hampshire being marketed lately.

FWIW Kurabota pork chops are currently going for close to $11lb WHOLESALE. :shock:

Here's another marketing gimmick. Japan pretty much buys all Berkshire hogs from the US. They will also raise Berkshire over there and sell them as Kurabota(TM). The price goes up.
 

3waycross

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slick4591":zltj52fx said:
3waycross":zltj52fx said:
The big buzzwords in pork are Berkshire and Kurabota. There is also some Hampshire being marketed lately.

FWIW Kurabota pork chops are currently going for close to $11lb WHOLESALE. :shock:

Here's another marketing gimmick. Japan pretty much buys all Berkshire hogs from the US. They will also raise Berkshire over there and sell them as Kurabota(TM). The price goes up.

Slick there is still plenty of Domestic Berkshire being sold here.

FWIW All Kurabota means in Japanese is black pig. However it's definately not all gimmick. There is a definate difference in marbling when compared to the normal white hog being marketed in the US. We also sell a product from White Marble Farms that is being bred specifically for it's marbling. I can't tell you what breed it is though!

I ate a lot of pig that was raised on slop, barley, and corn when i was a kid. Most of it was Hampshire as both grandparents raised them. All i can say is it was a hellova lot better than most of the commercial stuff we are seeing today!
 

highgrit

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Sounds like the double muscled crew drinks kool-aid to me. The beef in Europe is the worst, and everyone knows it. But I sure can see
the plus side to using a Lim-Flex bull. I get paid by the pound for my beef, bigger is better. But taste and color sells.
 

robert

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last consumer study I saw regarding satisfaction with cooked beef based on grading showed something in the order of 1 in 4 select steaks were unacceptable, for low choice it was around 1 in 10, for mid/upper choice it was 1 in 25, not only would that be a direct comparison of marbling vs. satisfaction, low choice used to be select grade until the goal posts were moved. Marbling may account of 10% of the difference but in this study it meant a shift from 75% acceptance to 96% acceptance, which is more important?
 

slick4591

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Good friend on mine raises Berkshire, 3Way, and I'm comparing Berkshire to Berkshire, not a white or red hog. Maybe there's something special the Japanese are doing differently that they get extra marbling in the Kurabota. If there is I can't find the secret and my friend doesn't know, either. I'm with you on the flavor of pork. If you feed sack feed like the instructions tell you, you might as well eat a piece of cardboard. Some of the best pork I've ever raised was when I started a finishing ration 60 days before slaughter.

highgrit":121o6j9q said:
Sounds like the double muscled crew drinks kool-aid to me. The beef in Europe is the worst, and everyone knows it. But I sure can see
the plus side to using a Lim-Flex bull. I get paid by the pound for my beef, bigger is better. But taste and color sells.

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Highgrit, like I've already said about European beef, I've never eaten it and I don't care what they are serving over there. I can guarantee you one thing and that's if the beef I buy is not high quality I dang sure wouldn't promote it. I still have my beef connections from when I was in the restaurant biz and can get high choice CAB anytime I want. I still order the Piedmontese. It's not us drinking any Kool-Aid because we've actually put the meat in our mouths. Maybe instead of trying to knock something you should try it first.

Reminds me that I'm eating Pied flank steak tonight and I'll cook it and eat it like I would a CAB ribeye. It's that tender and more flavorful.
 

Beef Man

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We have a small meat biz and do things a bit different. We age everything at least 14 days. Feed a lot of barley and peas [raise a lot of our own] We also feed mostly 1/2 english cross cattle or better. These usually fit the frezer trade . Aim for a select+ as a grade[not as much trim]. Also are very fortunate to have a wonderfull processing plant close. Could get to be a real good enterprize but just getting old to fast. Always feed the customer as good as you do yourself and family and its a snap.
 

ALACOWMAN

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to be honest, the majority of folks on here raise what they want.... some say because they can . which is great.....but their not overly concerned about the consumers beef eating experience.......
 

highgrit

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Slick, you can try and spin it anyway you want. But the fact and truth of the matter is the double muscled cows are what the Europeans breed and sell for there beef. There taste and tenderness have never been their strong points. Double muscled cows put the beef on the ground, in bigger calves, higher weaning weights and just a bigger cow overall. It's all in what you like, some folks like to eat rattlesnake. And millions of people that spend extra $ to by CAB don't know what good beef is supposed to taste like. Drink some more Kool-Aid.
 

ANAZAZI

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highgrit":29s1wlij said:
Slick, you can try and spin it anyway you want. But the fact and truth of the matter is the double muscled cows are what the Europeans breed and sell for there beef. There taste and tenderness have never been their strong points. Double muscled cows put the beef on the ground, in bigger calves, higher weaning weights and just a bigger cow overall. It's all in what you like, some folks like to eat rattlesnake. And millions of people that spend extra $ to by CAB don't know what good beef is supposed to taste like. Drink some more Kool-Aid.

I am european. Most of the beef in europe is from dairy cattle or their crosses. The double muscled breeds work well to cross with dairy breeds, it improves the yield much and makes the beef more tender, while the dairy side of the cross provides enough marbling to get the best of both worlds. Dm breeds also work on "british breeds" cattle as terminal cross.
And dry ageing is the thing if one wants real beef flavour.
 

slick4591

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highgrit":1tu1hbg5 said:
Slick, you can try and spin it anyway you want. But the fact and truth of the matter is the double muscled cows are what the Europeans breed and sell for there beef. There taste and tenderness have never been their strong points. Double muscled cows put the beef on the ground, in bigger calves, higher weaning weights and just a bigger cow overall. It's all in what you like, some folks like to eat rattlesnake. And millions of people that spend extra $ to by CAB don't know what good beef is supposed to taste like. Drink some more Kool-Aid.

Spin? You're funny, but not hilarious. Guess you'd have to tell me when the last time you actually ate DM beef for your opinion to carry much weight. As far as I can tell you our commercial market are not crossing Pieds with dairy. They are crossing with other beef breeds, although 2-copy DM beef is told to me to be better than the crosses. I can't say for sure since the beef I buy is only guaranteed to carry at least 1-copy. Guess it would be easy to have gotten a bad steak if it was overcooked. These DM breeds should be cooked slow and never past medium because they don't carry the fat like the commercial. Each to his own, I guess. Anyone unwilling to open up their mind and try new things shouldn't knock what they are unaware of.
 

glacierridge

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ALACOWMAN":3qmnoteb said:
to be honest, the majority of folks on here raise what they want.... some say because they can . which is great.....but their not overly concerned about the consumers beef eating experience.......

We raise what we want because we can AND we are very concerned with the consumers eating experience. Repeat customers are not only the biggest compliment we could have, but they are also our greatest business resource. Folks are amazed how flavorful and tender lean beef can be. We are not only concerned about our customers eating experience, but also our cattle. They don't get fed junk. Another reason we are concerned with the eating experience is that we also butcher our own and don't feed ours any different than the customers beef. We like good quality meat ourselves.
 

Nite Hawk

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For those of you who don't like contanental breeds and say they don't have good carcasses..
In Canada at the Western Agribition-the largest beef show in Canada, Limosin sired animals have won the carcass competition for 28 years, a record that has not been equalled north of the Border. So even though they may not be popular in some areas, they have been rated highly in Canada in carcass competitions--
http://www.limousin.com/WhyCanadianLimo ... fault.aspx

Up here limosin cattle are considered doubled muscled, even though they may not be considered DM elsewhere.
And no, I don't have limosin cattle, although with the right bloodlines I wouldn't be afraid to raise a few.
I grew up on mostly very lean wild meat, and the first time I ate much beef it was British beef with "tons" of fat on it. I was shocked at the amount of fat on it, and while the other individual who was eating with me gobbled the fat and all down, I carefully was cutting the fat off. Wasn't used to all that fat, and still prefer leaner meat than something with an inch or more of fat on it.
To each his own preferances...
 

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