Docking animals

[KANSAS]

Ok... color gets docked (besides black)
Spots get docked
Ears get docked
horns get docked

Does this happen outside the U.S.?
When did it start happening?
What will cause it to stop if anything?

Thanks in advance

 

[Bullbuyer]

If you notice - as prices are off right now, the 'docking' gets worse since profit margins are going to be closer (recent increases in corn prices).
I highlighted the word 'docking' because I don't see it so much as 'docking' as I do grading. As the profit margin narrows, you'll see this even more - the easiest example would be to look at your holstein steer price, droppin' like a rock.

 

[KANSAS]

I have seen it... just curious as to why it truly happens..
You can buy a solid red cow, put a black bull on her and her offspring should be black. Why does she sell for less than a solid black cow?

Actually looking for answers on all of my original questions.

 

[Bullbuyer]

Does this happen outside the U.S.?
When did it start happening?
What will cause it to stop if anything?

Thanks in advance

I guess I did over look the original ???
1) Outside US - have no idea, will defer to the folks from Down Under
2) I'll leave that to someone better versed than myself.
3) Economics says it won't stop - buyers have found a product that they like and probably won't change from it as long as it is profitable - "Don't reinvent the wheel."

 

[Schnurrbart]

Ok... color gets docked (besides black)
Spots get docked
Ears get docked
horns get docked

Does this happen outside the U.S.?
When did it start happening?
What will cause it to stop if anything?

Thanks in advance

Seems to me that years ago the Angus Assoc had a great promoter/marketer who convinced the uninformed public that the only cow, and certainly the only cow worth eating, was an Angus. Now, it seems that if it is black, it is good and all other colors are not desirable. Of course, now that just about every breed in the world has a black version, who knows for sure what that black cow really is. I watched the Simmental show in Denver a few years ago on the other side of the ring and out of over 100 animals shown while I was watching, there was ONE breed colored cow and the rest were black. That is doing the purebred breeds a huge disservice in my opinion. If you think Black Angus is what the public wants, raise them but don't mess up the genetics of a pure breed to be a copy cat.

 

[KANSAS]

I agree, but what does this do to the red angus then?

 

[randiliana]

Ok... color gets docked (besides black)
Spots get docked
Ears get docked
horns get docked

Does this happen outside the U.S.?
When did it start happening?
What will cause it to stop if anything?

Thanks in advance

Happens here too, although the ears that get docked here are usually frozen ones.

The spots are usually docked because it can indicate longhorn, although really there are a lot of breeds with spots AND muscle/frame like Simmental, Maine, Shorthorn etc. Horns get docked because they cause bruising in feedlot animals. And the frozen ears get docked because it could also mean frozen feet or pnemonia problems.

 

[Frankie]

Ok... color gets docked (besides black)
Spots get docked
Ears get docked
horns get docked

Does this happen outside the U.S.?
When did it start happening?
What will cause it to stop if anything?

Thanks in advance

1. I don't know if it happens outside the US, but I doubt it. Few countries have our grading system.

2. Several years ago when cattle prices last fell hard, producers were looking for every premium they could get. The CAB grid and premium were there for them to use. Since then there are several grids paying premiums for cattle that work.

3. I don't think it's going to stop. I think as more and more people are willing to identify their cattle, retain ownership, breed for a specific market, those who are unwilling to do that are going to be left behind.

IMO, for what it's worth.

The Red Angus Assn has worked hard to push their ear tagging system. It's my understanding that Excell's Sterling Silver branded beef program uses a lot of Red Angus cattle.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I have a few cows that have that diluter gene that makes the calves grey out of a black bull. Even with the Angus tags in the ear, they still get docked significantly.

 

[KANSAS]

When you mentioned simmental and shorthorn those two breeds are what really made me ask the question. Both are gorgeous animals that can produce excellent beef. It is an absolute shame they should get docked. Would just seem to me that there would be great money to be made taking advantage of the prices on such good cattle. Who knows? Meat looks like meat to me...

 

[randiliana]

As far as I can tell, the reason is "because they can". I've seen some teriffic looking spotted animals go for nothing just because of the spots. Sad but that is the way it is. Everyone asks why you don't just keep them, and the answer is that you have to sell them eventually, and unless you are set up to sell directly to the consumer you are eventually going to get hit. If I were in the feedlot business those would be the animals to buy, spots, greys... the off colored animals that have quality to them. But I'm not in that business so they go to market if we get one, take the first loss, it is usually the smallest one ;-)

 

[Jogeephus]

The answer can be found by looking at the posterior end of a bull long enough. Salesmen call it bogies others call it BS. I'm pretty sure its been around as long as people have bought and sold cattle. JMO

 

[msscamp]

I have seen it... just curious as to why it truly happens..
You can buy a solid red cow, put a black bull on her and her offspring should be black. Why does she sell for less than a solid black cow?

Actually looking for answers on all of my original questions.

I could be wrong here, but I believe docking happens because each individual area has certain breeds that work better than other breeds as far as performance, gain, hardiness, tolerance, etc. Each breed contributes certain characteristics to the calf that are discernable by a knowledgeable cattleman/buyer, and they can tell the underlying breeds, usually, and know that that particular combination won't work for the area that the animal is destined for. Then there is the solid black animal that sells better due to CAB (sorry, guys and gals) and all of its hype.

 

[warpaint]

I think all these responses have merit.
I also think that randilana said it best,"because they can."

 

[Frankie]

Then there is the solid black animal that sells better due to CAB (sorry, guys and gals) and all of its hype.

Bottom line"

That check the producer puts in his pocket isn't hype.

 

[andybob]

I have not experienced this type of docking in other countries,breeding stock will sell according to the prefered type for a given area, but cattle intended for finishing have always been bid on according to their conformation.
Brahman and their composites are very popular with finishers in Southern African states, I know of feedlot to retail companies that look for Bos Indicus influence in their purchases so as to cash in on the heterosis, Red cattle are preferred over black in these countries.
In Britain, there are no red Angus, and a premium is paid for finishers which have the approved tracability proving them to have been sired by a regestered Aberdeen Angus bull.
The common commercial female in England is the 'Black Hereford' an F1 Hereford/Holstien which are usually bred to the Angus.

 

[MoGal]

If you're going to sell at the salebarn then its very important to take note of what sells best in your area.......

the spots, ears and horn have been docked for many, many years...... I'm starting to notice less docking of the ears as there are more brangus influenced cattle in this area.

the angus assn. is to be commended for their advertising promotion of CAB which has the buyers for feedlots paying more for black hided calves (they also pay well for gold colored calves most of the time).

3 weeks ago a 500 lb longhorn heifer sold at the local salebarn for 20 cents per pound... this just isn't an area to raise longhorns in as there isn't a local market for them.

 

[auctionboy]

When will docking stop? Ay the auction the most is paid for quality animals with lots of muscle. Spend more time at the auction and you will see they are paying for what will make them money. Why the hell would they pay as much for a Jersey steer as a Angus. This docking is done because those animals do not perform as well. A spotted calf that has the bdy of a stout charlois will sell well. When will they stop pay more money for better calves? Never, what a stupid question!!!!

 

[ga. prime]

I wouldn't say it was a stupid question, but otherwise auctionboy is dead on right.

 

[mwj]

I wouldn't say it was a stupid question, but otherwise auctionboy is dead on right.

He would be if he could explain the spotted calf price I don't think the thread was started about jersy seers not bringing top dollar ;-) Explain those ''good'' smokey gray calves getting docked and I will start to listen :cboy: