DDA Animals AAA

[inyati13]

Check this out. Looks like Ken in Australia was correct. wbvs58 posted this to my thread on the New Day heifer on 9/7/13. Good forethought Ken:

Lovely heifer Ron, I see no need to test her other than for your own curiosity. You are not a seedstock producer, it is the job of seedstock producers to test and drift away from carriers and supply clean bulls.
The genetics that carry this gene have been heavily used for over 20 years with no perceived problems until just the other day. If it is much of a problem then I think we are a bit slow on the uptake.
By the way Ron they are now finding normal animals that are homozygous cc. It is only an assumption that the majority of cc embryos die. I think it is more likely that the developing embryo corrects the defect and hence now the normal homozygous cc are showing up.
Ken.

http://www.angus.org/pub/DD/DD_Update_091213.pdf

 

[HughesFamilyCattle]

Ron,
I'm tech challenged. Can you cut & paste/post their release that says that after August of 2014 you will not even be able to register a calf with DD. Haven't got a straight answer if the release you just posted overrides this one or not. I think the Angus board still doesn't know what to do/what will destroy and/or run off Producers.

 

[HDRider]

inyati13

I am confused. If they continue to allow registration of DDs, and your above message indicates it works itself out.. Isn't that 100 percent opposite.

 

[inyati13]

On cell. Will be brief. This only pertains to DDA. Which the AAA is referencing as Homozygous positive for the mutation. Therefore they have the genotype (cc) but not the phenotype which is to say they are normal cattle but have the genes for DD. thus, you can register these animals w/o reference. I find the AAA message poorly explained. AAA rules still pertain to the carrier status (Cc)
This is what Ken was saying before AAA released this notice on 9/12/13.
Ken lives in Australia where this research was performed and must have on inside on that research. He is a retired Vet.

 

[inyati13]

Hughesfamilyfarm: this is not to override their previous board actions. It says the board met again and made policy changes only in regard to the DDA, which is homozygous for the mutation. Understand, it is impossible to be homozygous as a carrier. A carrier has the geneotype Cc. So is heterozygous.

 

[inyati13]

inyati13

I am confused. If they continue to allow registration of DDs, and your above message indicates it works itself out.. Isn't that 100 percent opposite.

The 9/12/13 AAA policy only relates to the DDA, homozygous genetype, I assume all other rules as stated in the reference in your OP on DD are still in play.

 

[greybeard]

. It is only an assumption that the majority of cc embryos die. I think it is more likely that the developing embryo corrects the defect and hence now the normal homozygous cc are showing up.
Ken.[/i]

http://www.angus.org/pub/DD/DD_Update_091213.pdf

That is also an assumption isn't it? An educated or experienced assumption but still an assumption.

 

[HughesFamilyCattle]

Hughesfamilyfarm: this is not to override their previous board actions. It says the board met again and made policy changes only in regard to the DDA, which is homozygous for the mutation. Understand, it is impossible to be homozygous as a carrier. A carrier has the geneotype Cc. So is heterozygous.

Hey Ron,

Sorry, I majored in business not biology/chemistry. So it still stands that after next August 2014 they are saying that you cannot register any carriers? I'm just trying to understand why some of these big Angus donors that are DD are stilling selling for so much.....if you can only register 50% off thier offspring.....ie The Big Express Ranch sale a couple of weeks ago. DD carrier donor moms and potential donor moms going for $50,000 to $100,000. Thanks for your explanations on this, Keith

 

[HughesFamilyCattle]

inyati13

I am confused. If they continue to allow registration of DDs, and your above message indicates it works itself out.. Isn't that 100 percent opposite.

The 9/12/13 AAA policy only relates to the DDA, homozygous genetype, I assume all other rules as stated in the reference in your OP on DD are still in play.[/quote



Just read a New 11 page update. Once a bull is noted as a Carrier, from the time that is posted on the AAA website you will have 60 days to Register an offspring out of that bull then never again the book is closed and never can you Register an Offspring out of that bull. If you own a female carrier and breed her if her offspring is a heifer you can Register her but she must be DNA tested and her Registration papers will denote if she is a DD carrier or not and if she has a bull that is a carrier then you can never Register it....... Well this is the way the current rules reads.... Well until next weeks DD update......

 

[inyati13]

Keith,
I took this from the AAA website. It is dated 8/14/13. The best understanding will require you to read it in its entirety.
http://www.angus.org/Pub/DD/DDLetter08142013.html

I am glad they made this statement, "With the onset of DD, it became clear that the discovery of genetic conditions will be a part of the future for all breeds of cattle." All species, races and breeds are treated equally when it comes to genetic defects. It is the nature of and risk of the business. It is not just angus. We hear more about angus because they are the most common breed. But defects are everywhere. My family learned the hard way. Our baby brother had a life threating stroke. His basilary artery in has brain is totally obstucted. He should be dead. We found out both mom and dad are carriers of Lieden Factor 5 Polymorphism mutatation that causes blood clots. There are 5 of us. We all had to be tested. Two came out homozygous positive for the condition and require blood thinner. Two came out heterozygous carriers and and I came out homozygous negative. I have always been lucky.

BTW: If you click the policy statement in the reference above you will see that they finally made clear that the DDA means "affected". This is what Ken was talking about. An animal which is homozygous positive but is normal. That sound like it is self exclusive but is not. It is an animal which has both genes for the mutation but did not develope the extra legs. I would speculate that it will take a crew of molecular biologist to explain the nature of this phenomena.

 

[HDRider]

inyati13

I am confused. If they continue to allow registration of DDs, and your above message indicates it works itself out.. Isn't that 100 percent opposite.

The 9/12/13 AAA policy only relates to the DDA, homozygous genetype, I assume all other rules as stated in the reference in your OP on DD are still in play.[/quote



Just read a New 11 page update. Once a bull is noted as a Carrier, from the time that is posted on the AAA website you will have 60 days to Register an offspring out of that bull then never again the book is closed and never can you Register an Offspring out of that bull. If you own a female carrier and breed her if her offspring is a heifer you can Register her but she must be DNA tested and her Registration papers will denote if she is a DD carrier or not and if she has a bull that is a carrier then you can never Register it....... Well this is the way the current rules reads.... Well until next weeks DD update......

That makes sense..

 

[ICAngusFarms]

So... My only problem with all this is, as a potential seedstock producer with a lot of "bought potential carriers". Why are they not mandating that any prior AI seirs be tested to rule out further generations to rule out lineage??? Why put the $$$$ on the current generations? I currently have over 25 "potential carriers" because they have not ruled anything out beyond the 70's..... P.S. have only had a handful of "unexplained" still births etc in 9 years....... All I know is this game is all a role of the dice so to speak no matter what you do and I am about done with AAA in terms of what you "can and can't register" as they seem to change their game every time you turn around. Not to mention that they require you to use their labs to do genetic testing and then charge you per defect or otherwisze if you want to prove you are doing your job!!!!! Huh. Gotta pay for the marketing somehow right???

 

[wbvs58]

I think we are just going to have to get used to these problems showing up and having to deal with them.
I do think though that the associations will have to be a bit more flexible and not so hard line and let the seedstock producer be informed and make the decisions them selves. Defects like this DD are not new and these genetics have been heavily used for a long time, you can't tell me that they become a problem for commercial cattle producers overnight. Defective calves have not been seen to be a problem and lower fertility has not been observed. Yes it is the responsibility of seedstock producers to identify carriers and move away from these genetics but I see no problem with selling bulls already on the ground as long as they are identified and purchasers are made aware of the problem. They are suitable for cross breeding.
I have found that Angus Australia has handled this pretty well, they got the information out to us and updated regularly and made provision for testing promptly. I have just started to join my cows and was able to ensure the semen I plan to use is all free and I got the bulls that I plan to use tested as well as last years so at least all my calves will at least be clean from the sires side. My foundation cows are being tested at the moment and from the probability %ages I will be doing OK if I only get about 1/3 showing up as carriers but I will be able to deal with that.
In Australia we have been able to register calves even if they have tested as carriers of any of the genetic conditions. This has not hindered eradicating the conditions, as long as you are aware of what is affected and what are not and you don't join two carriers. Many people elect to breed from some very good cows that are carriers and then test the resultant offspring with the aim of getting some clear replacements.
I get the impression that there are a few people from other breeds and also within the Angus breed that have not used the affected bloodlines that are gloating a bit and saying I told you so, I new that would happen. Well at least Angus are identifying these problems and with modern technology rapid steps are taken to rectify things.
Ken

 

[inyati13]

The AAA does not require the use of their testing for genetic defects. You can google Stockman's Resources (Iowa) as one alternative. Their e-mail address is [email protected]
The GENESEEK blood card is acceptable for taking a sample. Contact them and they will send you how ever many you need for a minimal fee. The photos on the AAA for using the GENESEEK are excellent. First time I used the GENESEEK, I did not get the circle adequately covered for a good sample. The pictures on the AAA site show how much to get (a picture is worth a thousand words).

KEN thanks for your message.
BTW, I am not motivated by any defense of the AAA. I have simangus cattle and am not a breeder or seedstock producer. I do have an interest in genetics.

 

[inyati13]

The AAA needs to write better public release documents. I have read the releases on DD and they could do better. Example, in their Sept 12, 2013 release, they introduced the abbreviation DDA (Developmental Duplication Affected) which is the homozygous positive animal that is otherwise normal. In other words, the "affected" animal has both genes for DD but the animal does not exhibit the phenotype for DD. Those animals can be registered with the registration containing the designation DDA. But the Sept 12, 2013 realease did not identify the word they were using the "A" to represent. I found it after reading preceding publucations.