Dehorning questions

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I saw that comment above

What else did u do?
People have been dehorning forever without pain meds. Did you cauterize after with an iron? Fly spray? Antiseptic?
Early spring or late fall, I don't remember which, but no flies around. So nothing except cutting the horns off. They bled some but nothing I felt I had to worry about. Older cow. I know some people will pull the veins out with a needle nose pliers so they don't bleed as much on calves. And of course the various treatments. I'd never dehorn in hot or freezing weather. If I had calves to dehorn I'd get one of those hot dehorners that just burns the skin around the horn bud.
 
Early spring or late fall, I don't remember which, but no flies around. So nothing except cutting the horns off. They bled some but nothing I felt I had to worry about. Older cow. I know some people will pull the veins out with a needle nose pliers so they don't bleed as much on calves. And of course the various treatments. I'd never dehorn in hot or freezing weather. If I had calves to dehorn I'd get one of those hot dehorners that just burns the skin around the horn bud.
Right!
These are 4 yr old cows that should've been dehorned from the beginning.

I plan on taking them off at the head, sprinkling the anticoagulant and spraying with bluekote.

Trying to gather as MUCH info beforehand as possible!
 
Right!
These are 4 yr old cows that should've been dehorned from the beginning.

I plan on taking them off at the head, sprinkling the anticoagulant and spraying with bluekote.

Trying to gather as MUCH info beforehand as possible!
I read something interesting recently about dehorning with bands, much like banding for castration. It seemed to be a really good option from what I saw. No blood or contamination issues, and the only problem was that sometimes a band would come off, but that was unusual and was easy to fix with another band.
 
I read something interesting recently about dehorning with bands, much like banding for castration. It seemed to be a really good option from what I saw. No blood or contamination issues, and the only problem was that sometimes a band would come off, but that was unusual and was easy to fix with another band.
I've read a bunch on that as well. From what I've surmised, the banding is ok but hit or miss as far as success. No plans on banding.

Info on dehorning is difficult to come across. Everyone acts like it's the cruelest thing in the world.
 
With older cows, I trim the horns so they are around ear length. When it is preg-checking or AI time it is nice to have the added security of the horns against the head gate to keep a cow from backing out. What I do is put a rope around the base of the horns and have a helper pull the head to the side creating a bit of a tourniquet for when the horns come off. I then use either a reciprocating saw or a hacksaw to cut off the horn. I start the cut an inch inside the tip of the ear on the top and even with the tip of the ear on the bottom. This guides the future growth of the horn down. There is less bleeding with a saw because the arteries are torn rather than cut clean like a paper cut. To cauterize. I use both an electric cauterizing iron and a soldering iron with a point tip to get right into the artery. Low stress handling is a must, the less stress, the lower the blood pressure the quicker the healing. Also doing it when it is cool is important as well because horns are a radiator.
 
I've read a bunch on that as well. From what I've surmised, the banding is ok but hit or miss as far as success. No plans on banding.

Info on dehorning is difficult to come across. Everyone acts like it's the cruelest thing in the world.
Temporary pain for long term gain. Cruel? We take our kids to the dentist.
 
I read something interesting recently about dehorning with bands, much like banding for castration. It seemed to be a really good option from what I saw. No blood or contamination issues, and the only problem was that sometimes a band would come off, but that was unusual and was easy to fix with another band.
We did that years ago. Works well but does takes a long time. Seems painful far longer than standard dehorning. Have used it on goat scurs also. We used 2 bands because there were a few times one band would break from itching. We put duct tape on the bands to hold them in place until they sink in a bit.
 
What kind of cows are they, Murray? And why are you de-horning them?
Just a black cow.
There will be pics tomorrow.

I don't want the hassle of horns. I work on foot most times. No accidents. I've also learned, no matter the size of cow. Even a small cow with horns gets bossy with other cows
 
We haven't had any horns to deal with in years. We got some jerseys and the calves were in need of dehorning. Also a graft holstein came with horns. The first jersey calf was taken to the vet because I didn't want to use paste in flooding rains so she was bigger (3 months or so) when she was dehorned. It became obvious fairly quickly the dehorning wasn't completed. She used a scoop and then cauterize the horns where there was blood. I noticed it appeared she had left a lot of horn on one side and some on the other but I thought she knew what she was doing and it would all fall off during healing. I contacted her a few weeks later and she seemed unconcerned and that she would most likely have scurs and that I could pay again to have her dehorned if I wanted. A few more months later one horn was basically a full horn (just shorter than it would have been) and growing normally again and the other was a part of a horn also seemed to be growing normally just 1/2 as wide. The vet seemed unconcerned about them and we didn't trust her to do it again. We certainly didn't have interest in paying twice. So I bought a dehorning iron and researched how to do the nerve block (which the vet did but the heifer sure fought the dehorning) and set out on the graft steer. It was a night and day experience. He didn't even blink. I didn't have to tie his head or anything. He went off like nothing really had happened. His dehorning has been a success. He never even acted uncomfortable where as the heifer was clearly uncomfortable for near 2 weeks at least. He was only a month old though. The heifer I redid at around 7 month old. She also didn't even need restraint once the nerve block kicked in. One side was very easy and was quickly healed and successful. The other (the much bigger horn) was more of a challenge as the dehorner I had bought was to small for that horn. I was able to get around the entire thing carefully but there was still a bigger piece of horn left after popping off the cap. I was pretty worried it really needed scooping but a few weeks after the other horn scab had come off the chunk of horn came off and she's now perfectly dehorned. I will no longer wait and will do them myself in the future. I wasted time and money by not doing it myself. I know our experience isn't normal. I am sure most vets can successfully do a dehorning. I will no longer do paste. I hope to never have to do larger horns but if I did I would nerve block, scoop and cauterize. In the case of super large horns I think the dehorner @MurraysMutts got and a hot iron to cauterize would probably be ideal. I would nerve block if at all possible.
 
It's definitely going to be a new experience for me actually DOING the work myself. The horns are not large. But large enough I don't want em!
Just gathering information and thoughts. A good scout is always prepared and all that... and on that note, my buddy says there's all kinda ways. Even a cordless angle grinder. But I kinda like the right tool for the job! I even got me a set of Barnes style dehorners as well for the smaller animals. There's good money in dehorning, steering, vax and weaning etc. Like all other things. They gotta be bought right tho!

As an aside, I sold a few calves just a while back. 2 of my baldy steers brought more than I gave for these 2 new PAIRS!!!
And 2 heifer calves I sold brought right near close to what I gave for my 2 new BRED cows. All young cows. 4 and 5 yr olds. I'm really over the moon about it!

THOROUGHLY APPRECIATE YA'LLS THOUGHTS!! Feel free to chime in guys n gals.
 
I'll bump this. I've got a couple I'm gonna knock horns off of tomorrow. 4 year old cows.
I have some anticoagulant and bluekote spray.
In the past I've always had my vet do it. He usually uses an iron afterwards. Is that really necessary??
Supposed to freeze Sunday night. With possibly some rain Sunday day.
By the way. I've been wanting a pair of these for some time now!!
View attachment 36388
We quit using those dehorners 40 years ago but they work good. Make sure the blade is sharp and you are strong.
 
We always used an electric dehorner on calves, and that works great honestly, probably the best system, for reliability and least amount of pain and suffering for the calf, except while being dehorned. You need a good hot "dehorning iron" the right size to fit around the horn (I assume it would work on a larger horn too... you'd just need a larger diameter iron). We always used an electric one (thermostatically controlled and most reliable for stable required temp). IF it's not hot enough, it for sure won't do the job right... and "red hot" is about right. Apply till you see an orange ring on the hide all the way around the horn, after doing a few, you'll begin to recognize it right away. If you remove the dehorner too soon and don't see that ring all the way around, reapply for a few more seconds (like another 5-10 maybe) and check again. The whole process should only take about that long of application (5-10 seconds) for each horn. You need that head restrained so you can keep the iron firmly on the horn all the way around consistently, and then "rotate" the iron back and forth around the horn a bit too to ensure full contact all the way around... We did maybe 100-130# calves by just 2 guys laying on them to hold them still (we normally did things mostly with brute strength rather than having a piece of equipment to make it easier), any bigger though, and you'll probably want a calf chute with head restraint.

We also have used alot of the elastrator bands to take them off, and they do work well too... when they work. They'll ALWAYS do the job, if they stay put where you want them (so you have to have bigger critters for them to work). With a sharply tapered horn, it's hard to get them to stay put though... they tend to want to roll back up off the horn. You need to get them ALL the way up into the hairline, above the base of the horn, so it "seats" deeper than the horn itself, into the softer tissue there, if you want it to stay. And that's hard to accomplish, especially with large diameter tapered horns. I've taken to putting just slight cuts in the horn surface up there, just ahead of the band on opposite sides of the horn, so it "takes" into that small groove... seems to work pretty well. Results in some bleeding, but with that band placed there, that acts as a tourniquet and shuts the blood down pretty quickly, so nothing to worry about.

Best method of course is to breed for polled heads!
 
A vet told me once he would rather have to deal with flies when dehorning than risking them catching "cold" in our coastal rain.
By "cold" he was referencing the infection that turns into a snotty mess where the horns are removed. More of a concern in older
calves and cows.
 

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