Dead Twins

[ChipC]

This may be a dumb question, but I'm new at this so excuse me. I had a cow today that delivered two dead heifer calves. One was very small and didn't even really have hair. Looked more like catfish skin. The other was a little bigger, but still way smaller than what I'm use to. They probably weighed a combined total of 30-40lbs. and their hooves were yellow and very very soft like jelly. Does it sound like they were premature?

The 2nd part of my question is probably dumber than the first but here it goes. How exactly do you know for sure they are dead? I tried suctioning the nose and throat, but I never found a pulse or breath. I did this for about 20-30 minutes before I decided for sure they weren't alive, but when I was burying them I still couldn't help but think they could have been alive and I just couldn't tell.

Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[M-5]

Sounds like they were premature. Number of reasons could be cause. No pulse or breath usually means they are dead.

 

[TCRanch]

First of all, I'm so sorry! We've had preemies that have made it but all had a full coat, teeth, hooves were soft but fully formed, lungs were apparently developed enough, smallest was 40 lbs & we happened to find them in time. Sounds like your little girls were way too premature. Our only set of twins were heifers, both 60+ lbs but their momma also clocked in at 2000 lbs. As to the 2nd part of your question (which is absolutely not dumb), you did the right thing, sometimes it's helpful to massage the calf to stimulate breathing. How was the cow reacting? Mothering-up? Most of the time you can tell for sure by her behavior but you have to trust your gut & from what you explained it doesn't seem at all likely they were alive.

 

[etmountianman71]

Never a dumb question.
I would have performed the same thing. Sorry for the loss.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

They were premature, and definitely dead. Had either or both of them been alive, they would have started "sputtering" and "sneezing" and blowing air out of their noses, shaking their heads and responsive to a finger touching their eye balls.

Had they been alive, with what you have described, the hairless one especially would never had survived. They were way to early to survive.

I have had a few of preemies, one was just way too small and failed to thrive. the others did okay.

Sorry you lost the set.

 

[branguscowgirl]

I will again say as others have. "Not a dumb question"!
How can you know, if you have never experienced it before?

Someone posted a really good chart on fetal development quite some time back. Explaining what develops at what week of gestation. It is handy to look at when this happens, to know the age of the fetus.
I think it may have been Dun.
Dun if you are lurking, help us out!

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Agree, probably born dead. So sorry. Shiyt happens sometimes, and we never know why. If you pushed air into them, shook and shaked them, and you got nothing . . . there was nothing. Hope your cow is recovering alright.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Man ... that's tough.

Plan a breeding, wait nine months and to end up with a bad result ... always frustrating. Earlier this year, I had a long-planned-for embryo calf (and a heifer to boot) get struck and killed by lightening when she was about 3 months old. Fun times.

Blech.

Sorry to hear of your loss ... the only reason I share mine is to let you know you're not alone!

 

[ChipC]

Thank you to everybody for the replies. As far as the mother she licked and nudged them for awhile and wasn't very happy, but seems to be recovering fine. I've only had one calf before and it was a bull that weighed about 60lbs. So when I saw these they looked tiny. Not a whole lot bigger than a cat.

Not trying to get sentimental, but it is amazing how helpful this forum and people like ya'll are to folks like me! I have not had one question or issue that I have not been able to find an answer to.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice, maybe I can sleep a little better tonight knowing I did what I could do.

 

[shortybreeder]

Another helpful sign if you are helping a cow that's struggling, but you don't know how long she's been struggling, is to look at the tongue. If it's purple, that means the calf is suffocating (or has already suffocated) and that means get it out NOW.

 

[Lucky_P]

I'd classify that as an abortion - and would want to know WHY... at that size, it's unlikely to have been premature birth due to insufficient room in the uterus - last cow I had deliver twins had a 69lb heifer and an 87lb bull... but she was a big cow. Might be 'nothing', but this could be the first wave of an abortion storm.
Burying them or dumping them in a sinkhole doesn't happen here - I want to know what's going on - if there's anything I can do to prevent repeat performances, if the cow is a carrier of some disease (anaplasmosis, neosporosis, etc.), and needs medical treatment or a dose of trailermycin.

 

[WalnutCrest]

That trailermycin is a powerful drug.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Though not used enough, or responsibly in many herds.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Though not used enough, or responsibly in many herds.

+1