Dairy Farming

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Jerry...

Thanks, I suppose I needed the perspective from a parent. You sound an aweful lot like my boss. LOL...Fire and rehire, fire and rehire. I know they lecture their daughter, I've heard them. But you gotta think about what it looks like to the rest of us working there. Plain and simple, it's inconsistency. This comes after a particularly rough shift where I feel like the boss downright lied to me when it came to scheduling. That's a subject I won't even go into, but suffice it to say that I kept telling myself "You can't control what goes on here, but you can control how you respond to it."

I think that's great that you encourage a family working environment. I've worked with my dad a bit at my current job, but that hasn't really worked out on a regular basis.

How are you as far as time limits when it comes to milking? We get 5 1/2 hours max to work or they start getting edgy (for lack of better words.) In the case of my partners they actually only pay them for 6 hours of work, max. For some odd reason they're willing to let me go over that, and never question when it takes ME longer. Hence I've been known to say to my partner, "I have to get you out of here. You aren't being paid anyway." What do you think about this?

Turnover rate...this dairy is relatively new. Been running only since 2002. The herd manager has been there exactly that long, the rest have came and went. I really think that would cut down some if they stopped hiring high school kids, and...actually screened the people before hiring them.

How much do you put into training? Does the herd manager train, or is the new employee more or less thrown right into the main stream of doing things? I was trained by the herd manager, but was one of the last to have it done that way. Needless to say I've worked with some people that had me really questioning who they had learned things from.

Oh and yes...I do type fast. :D
 
Milkmaid, welcome to our discusion! you are correct, this is an intersting one that has brought back many thoughts about our past managment sucsesses and failures.

Barron Co, What did your boss do prior to 2002? I ask this because I know how many basic mistakes we made with human resources in the beginning. I know that we lost some good people at the hands of other employees, and some because of things that we did or did`t do. I don`t want to just say tolerate things, I don`t know enough about your situation to really give much advice. Your quote about controling your response is a good one. Linda uses that all the time when our kids get bent out of shape with each other (usually involves daughter). This good attitude on you part (that integrity again) will keep you there long enough to see if chages are being made.


On the family work issue. It is a great thing in many ways, as Linda mentioned, However it was frustating for those who had no stake in it and ourselves at times. This opportunity really has not presented itself lately but our policy would most likely be the same. I think that these frustations led to our policy to not hire teens part time and look for full time adults.


At this time we do not impose time limits on milkers, although we are very much aware that some are faster than others. My opinion would be that a lot would have to happen before I would pay for less time than they work. I think maybe even termination? It is not fair to just not pay them. Once hired, we trust that time is being used wisely until proven otherwise.


It is ,today, rare for us to advertise for a job spot. Most of our people come by word mouth. We will conduct a formal interview with the applicant after checking references and if we see no huge red flags we will turn them over to the heardsperson for a chat and look around. We view hireing as a two way street of sorts and this is their chance to see what really goes on here. It would be a waste of time to hire someone who quickly realized that it wasn`t for them. After that we will go with heardsmans decision 100%. We do have a probation period before permanant hire. After that 2 weeks to a month working closely with Heardsperson and experienced milkers. Our heardsperson is very cautious.

Must work now, Jerry
 
They dairied on a low level in a flat barn, and still run a custom harvesting business, as well as a tractor repair shop. Funny thing is that the herd mananger worked for them in that flat barn and then, among bad circumstances, quit abruptly. I sometimes wonder why he accepted their offer and came back. I think their biggest fault does not lie in managing the operation, but people management. It's bad when you firmly believe your boss cannot be trusted at all.

I don't want to rant and rave about my own personal situation here. Ultimately weather I go or stay depends on the decision I come to. I think it's time I write up a pros/cons chart and see what outweighs which. Perhaps that'll help me. Right now they're strapped as far as employees. I could easily work 7 days a week if I wished, and no doubt will pick up either a Saturday or Sunday AM during this coming month.

What I find invaluable in talking to you is perhaps discrediting the threat from everyone, "It'll be worse somewhere else. You have no guarantees." Granted, most dairies around us I would not want to work for. I agree in some ways I have it very good. When does a person say, "enough!" and never look back?
I have tried so hard in the past to overlook things and say "it'll improve." But I am getting increasingly skeptical it will. Right now a big sanity keeper is, "I like this herd. The people are just something I have to deal with."

I highly respect the fact that you let your herdsman influence you so much. After talking to "ours", I think this is his biggest problem. In fact he's told me, "They need to stay out of here and let me do my job."

Case in point was one night where he had a number of cows in the sick pen. This pen is only really built to hold 4, but he had 7 in there, on a Sunday...his only day off. Boss and the wife came in there, totally clueless as to why those animals were in there. They got angry that the pen was filled beyond capacity, and put most of those cows back in with the main groups. As a result there were 5 DA's. I can understand why the herd manager was upset. :roll: You get their "pet" workers throwing green bands (signifying three quarters) onto four quartered animals, simply because the cow is a chronic. This has resulted in the death of one animal, and the subsequent killing of a quarter on another one. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Do you let your herd manager do rationing? Is he responsible for all the AI work, or do you have an asst. who helps him? How much does he supervise what goes on in the parlor?

When you eventually expand are you planning on hiring a parlor manager? My current boss has dropped the hint to me that this is the job they intend for me upon expansion. Quite frankly, I don't want it unless we get a lot of things straight first.

I'd be curious to know if you think a once a month (or less) visit from the boss is normal? I never see the herd manager either, but he does call me a fairly regular basis.

One night this last summer a cow went down in the holding pen. I called the herd manager, left a message, then called the boss. This was at midnight, certainly no earlier. Boss said "leave her there." Huh?? The next day I got a crash course in IV's, and that won't ever happen again. Thankfully this doesn't happen on a regular basis.

Edited to add that I hope I don't come across as overbearing or angry here. This place has been good to me, and has taught me a lot. Growing up on a dairy I am very well aware of the demands that are placed on the owners. I try to take that into consideration when it comes to my frustrations with my boss.

Ok...enough for now. :)
 
Jerry and Linda, I'm really enjoying reading your posts and your perspective on things. :) I like the sound of how you run things and how you treat your employees - if nothing else, people that have worked for you for such long amounts of time shows that you must be doing something right. ;-)

Born2run and I are well acquainted, and I'll admit listening to some stories has me a little concerned about what things could be like elsewhere. LOL. I have a wonderful boss, but I won't be here forever. I'm heading to college this fall and had just planned on picking up a p/t job at a dairy at the same time. I have other skills, but the dairy cattle hold a certain fascination for me. ;-) This is the only job I've held, only boss I've known, and naively I'd just assumed anywhere else would be good as well - until I heard a few stories. LOL. So it's good to hear about other good employers. :nod:

As you've probably guessed by now, I am one of those "part time high school kids" - but be careful of lumping us all into one group! :lol: I don't doubt a lot of them - even most - have serious problems with commitment, but I'm not one of them. Boss wanted to know back in the beginning if I'd be here during the big vacation he had planned (almost 18 months from when I started - it was last fall), and I said sure. A few months ago he offered me a trade - couple weaned heifer calves for a bonus I hadn't yet earned (future) and a verbal promise that I'd be here through August. He knows what I want - heifers, LOL - and it was an excellent deal for both of us; esp since I wasn't planning to leave until fall when I went to college anyway. :lol:

I really do believe that you treat employees well and they'll be loyal to the farm...I know I've turned down quite a few jobs lately that were offered to me out of the blue, and good jobs, at that, that would have paid better than where I'm at now. But it goes back to that loyalty...and of course the promises I've made.

Jerry, any comments on...oh, college students and what you'd feel the average, good employer is looking for in a prospective employee? I get the feeling you don't really want anyone but fulltime adults that are planning to stay for years, and that I can understand. What percentage of the dairies do you think feel that way? I know with the right job I'd be around for a good four years, maybe more, after - if it were the right job.
 
My fingers are getting tired but worth it for this subject.

First we would like to just qualify some of what we have written by saying that things are not perfect here every day. This can be a high stress business, as you both already know, however we have made being a good employer a goal that we feel is important to our success and therfore many things that we do get measured against this yardstick.

Born2Run,
Our herdsperson does not do ration work but does have a basic understanding of how the wrong ration will cause problems and how to identify those problems. He does most of the AI work on the production groups except for times when he is not working then it would be Linda or myself. I do all the repro on virgin heifers. When we expand we will train one more employee for AI. The herdsperson is responsible for all that goes on in the parlor but when expanded we will select one of the more organized milkers and make them parlor manager. Mostly just a workload thing, but will also serve as an advancement for a well deserving employee. As for herd health The headsperson works with us and the vet to set up protocalls to deal with most usual problems and then all fulltime or regular partime people are expected to follow those and be trained to administer needed treatments. Linda and I are mostly called in as consuntants pertaining to the day to day operation of the dairy herd.

How often to see the boss? I would like to say that I see every one every day, but probably doesn`t quite happen. Between Linda and I probably.

Hope your days get better---Jerry and Linda
 
Thanks for the response. I managed to throw my shoulder out last night power-washing (an ongoing work there, you can never get that place clean enough) so that contributed to my bad attitude that I am now portraying. ;-)

I did write up that Pros/Cons list and assigned each of the issues point values. According to that I should stay there, at least for a little while longer. At this point in time I'm a bit more upbeat. :)

Hope you don't mind answering some more questions, because this has been stuff that I'm really curious about for awhile.

What time do you start your shifts? Here it's 5 AM, 1 PM, and 9 PM (my shift). Do you interchange employees from shift to shift, or do they pretty work just, 1st, etc.? How do you schedule? A month, two weeks in advance? How are you about days off, or trades? You say you train employees? What do they know how to on a regular basis? IV's? Administer other meds? How stringent are you on who treats IMM? I do an occasional IV upon the herd manager's orders, and have the freedom to IV at will if a cow goes down on my shift. Only drug I am ok'd to give is Banamine, and that is in conjuction with a case of staph. We're all supposed to work at heat detection, but like all facilities I think some take this more seriously than others. :)

Herd manager here does no actual AI work, that's all through Genex. He does synch heats, etc. with both the main herd as well as heifers at another facility. He does all the rationing for the 400 milking stock, and does an excellent job of it. I believe this is one chap that needs a big pat on the back for a job well done. Without him that place would not run smoothly.

What would your parlor manager do? Just curious here.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. You've definitely shed some new light on touchy subjects for me.

Reading your post to Milkmaid...maybe I should tell you that I'm 26 years old, female :) born and raised on a dairy. Had one employer besides my dad before going to this current job, and have a degree in Criminal Justice-Law Enforcement. Don't ask about that last one. :D
 
Milkmaid,
We actually had no idea about your age but did figure female based on the number of Emoticons per posting!

I give you a lot of credit for your committment and apolgize for the "lumping". Just to be clear, we do have a couple very committed young people working for us. But the reality is that at a young age lives are ever changing and that just doesn`t work for us if this is majority of the help. What I realy ment to say is that we don`t aggresively look for teenagers as a main stay.

We think that all Dairies, including us, have and will continue to have a place for good part time help.With a good reference behind you, you will have no problem. Sounds like you already know what an employer would be looking for, You have been practicing them!

I think your concerns about your next job are valid and the best advice that I could give would be this: Set YOUR goals high and don`t compromise on the things that are really important to you, not only in the context of the work but also on a personal level relating to the job. When you interview somwhere be an active participant, this is YOUR chance to see if they are worthy of your employment. Ask to speak to other employees. Once you interview a few times you will develop a nose for "red flags", Things that Just don`t add up or feel right. "If it sounds to good to be true it usually is" That kind of Thing. The interviewer among his questions, is doing the same thing.

Jerry
 
Hi
Linda here, Jerry thought I would be better able to answer you questions.. I'm also a much faster typist than he is LOL

First some basics: We milk at 6:00 AM, 1:30 PM and 9:30 PM. Our tank isn't large enough so our hauler takes out one load before the morning milking and a second one after it finishes. Prior to that "problem" we started at 5:30. Times were picked so I could keep contact with all shifts and still get a night's sleep.

Our milkers average about 30 shifts each month so all work some doubles. We have a couple of guys who will put in 38-42, but the rule is that if you are lead milker one shift you are scraper the next. We suggested alternating who scraped by pens but the milkers prefer to mostly scrape or mostly milk, especially in cold weather because it makes dressing appropriately easier. Schedules are out a week in advance-- we get away with this because as for most employees work and English class are their only regular committments. Employees find their own trades and must notify the herdsman or me for confirmation. All shifts must have at least on qualified lead milker.

All new hires start as just milking assistants with a straight wage. Within 60 days I expect them to learn to handle the parlor alone. At 60 days they are eligible for our milkers bonus. We use a formula I developed based on our plant bonus and my desire to have the cell count under 200. The bonus only pays down to 150 SCC-- this encourages a balance between volume and SCC. (anyone can have a 50 cell count if they keep enough cows out of the tank lol) The lowest bonus we've paid was $.02 per milking (THAT woke them up!!) and the most about $7.40 per milking. If anything happens that causes milk to be dumped the bonus pays for the milk before paying out. Everyone wins or everyone loses-- and we have dumped single milkings a few times in the past 10 years-- twice were because we had no hold cows so the routine was disturbed and the pipe stayed in the tank letting the wash into the milk. A couple others were from antibiotics. We have never caused a hot truckload-- the problems have always been caught in the shift. We have had a number of scares that had employees taking tank samples into the plant and that too wakes everyone up-- particularly because tank samples require a lab supervisor (as opposed to a unload worker) and having to wait for one to be called in at 2:00 AM....... While the all win all lose might seem harsh, everyone knows the rules at the start of the game. We have never had a milker cause two milk losses-- the milker responsible must personally tell every other milker why the bonus is less or gone. With scares the milker must also notify the others as a "watch out I almost blew it."

The formula is: (250-SCC)(ave daily HWT)(.00042).

So (250-190)(261.12)(.00042)=$6.58 per milking. We will adjust this formula down after expanding because the new equipment will help significantly in keeping cell counts lower. We will also be producing 50% more milk in the same number of hours.

As for responsibilities, a fully trained lead milker must- in no particular order-- be skidsteer trained, do IV's, be able to check a freshening cow for proper birthing position, assist with calvings, treat and record treatments, know the workings of the parlor enough to tell when something isn't working, recognize cows in heat, and be able to speak enough English to communicate with me. None of our Hispanics were fluent in English upon hiring. Our herdsman is now, as is our feeder. The trainees are doing very well as is our other Hispanic. I am also in my second university semester of Spanish so we have alot of "spanglish" going on lol. The employees were tickled to hear that I was schooling too-- my stumbling through Spanish has made all of us teachers as well as students. That has made them much more comfortable in speaking.

I can sum my employee philosophy up in a word: learn, learn, learn. Our herdsman is now as qualified as I am. He started out having only milked cows by hand in Mexico. He is responsible for culling decisions as well as the day to day operation of the herd. He is truely an exceptional person and we have a great respect for each other. I have a process for transferring responsibility but this is getting pretty long....

As for the Criminal justice degree-- our brother-in-law has one too and he is doing computer tech work. He has never used the degree-- he started working as a janitor at American Family ins part time in college and when a night shift job in the computer room came open they offered to train him. He's been there 25+years. I was in mechanical engineering when I decided to marry this farmer. Country girl but not farm. My ignorance was one of my best assets-- I could question everything and that lead us to alot of changes.... but of Jerry probably has a different view on all the questions ;-) LOL I've since finished a BS in organizational management-- definitely as asset with the personnel issues. Education teaches us to think...and that opens up the world of choices...
linda
 
J and L":2zspj0i5 said:
Milkmaid,
We actually had no idea about your age but did figure female based on the number of Emoticons per posting!
Click to expand...

LOL!! :lol: And I'd bet that's a very good way of guessing who is what (LOL) about 99% of the time. ;-)

I didn't take offense at your comments on teenage help being uncommitted, as I think you're very right. I agree with you and certainly understand your logic.

Thanks for the input on employers...how about questions to ask them and questions I should be prepared to answer? What kind of things do you usually ask? I haven't ever been through an actual interview - boss had known me since I was knee-high to a grasshopper (well, almost, LOL) and he offered me the job. I'd always spent lots of time down there just watching and asking questions, starting back when I was 11 or 12, and he knew me pretty well.

If you don't mind me asking - how on earth do you milk 400 cows in a double 6 milking parlor??? :lol: ;-) I was working by myself this afternoon - usual; I rarely have steady help for the entire shift - and I put 40 cows/hour through working alone. I'm working in a double 6, same as you. Things went smoothly, cows cooperated, was about average to high as far as rate of cows going through (with one person working). If I were to milk 400 cows at that rate...LOL...that'd be 10 hours, wouldn't it?! You must be doing something different.

Do you keep two employees on each shift, or more or less? As I said a moment ago, I usually work by myself for most of the shift. Sometimes I'll have boss's two sons (11 and 15) in the barn as well after they get out of school, sometimes boss will come in and work, but for the most part I work alone.

And like born2run said - thanks - for answering questions. :) We'd been discussing these things in depth lately and wondering about the employer's standpoint on various topics. With the size of the dairy where I work, there isn't a herd manager, feeder, parlor manager, calf feeder, etc. There aren't a dozen employees I have to interact with - just boss's sons; I'm the only non-family employee - and boss doesn't have anyone hired for cutting hay and fixing broken equipment, etc - he is everything. So those are all positions and jobs I have no experience with seeing or learning what they consist of.
 
Linda...

Again a big thanks for the response. I was pretty ignorant on how other dairies ran, up until now.

I started out at a slightly higher wage then a lot did there, because I came to them with experience, AND from another dairy. I worked 1 full shift with the herd manager, then another 2nd shift the following day. Starting two weeks later I was turned loose ;-) with an 17 year old high school kid, who really took advantage of my ignorance there. At that time there was no camera in the parlor, so the boss was pretty clueless as to that I was running the entire parlor alone for 60+ cows, while the kid went who knows where. While milking alone is normal in a smaller parlor, it really took a toll on me in a double 12. He never really did change, but eventually moved onto college and I gratefully lost him as a partner. It was during this time though that the boss and herd manager began to think I was "speed milker". Blissfully ignorant of why I was in a constant sweat and running, they thought it was just my nerves. lol I've come light years since then. I've slowed down dramatically, and actually take pride in doing the job correctly.

I took this job on to get me through college. Two months prior to graduation I had a talk with the boss, who offered me a lousy raise if I'd stay there for a year. It never even raised my eyebrows. One month later, again an offer, but this time with health insurance and a hefty raise. It was too good to resist, so here I am. I have a verbal agreement to stay there until July. At that point I get 1 week paid vacation, and it rises 1 week/year for every year I stay. I am never scheduled for any other shift besides 3rd, but have been known to work infrequent AM's and 2nd shifts, mostly to help out. I prefer the 3rd shift because it's quiet...just my partner and I. Herd manager either calls or leaves me sticky notes on my timecard with instructions.

There have three times in which milk has been dumped there. Twice the cooler was either not turned on or malfunctioned. Once a dry cow was put in the sick pen and was subsequently milked. THAT contaminated a tanker.

No deductions unless we majorly mess up. This includes...night shift letting the cows outside, -$50. Used to be that we'd get docked for pens being interchanged, but now the daughter does that so frequently that all we do is roll our eyes and move on.

I can see how you keep happy employees with the incentives. Full time people can expect an additional $100/month if the SCC stays below 200,000...that jumps to $200/month extra if it falls below 125,000. This is a huge incentive for all of us to do the job right.

Unlike most dairies, my boss has no Hispanics in his employment. He has threatened several times, and actually had a couple come in and try it out, only to leave and never return. Did you have to actively search at first for employees, or did they come to you?

My boss has an immaculate and beautiful setup. This in itself draws a lot of people, but finding the "right ones" seems to be tricky. What do you ask when hiring? Do you prefer experience or those who know nothing so that you can train them as you will?
 
Born2run- glad to hear that your employer recoginized that you were experienced and valuable before you left. I've heard many stories from employers after an opportunity is lost. Our employees also get 1 week vacation after 1 year, 2 after 2 and 3 after 5. Your's will increase by a week for every year you are there? So at 10 years you will have 10 weeks? Ours also get a benefits amount that most spend on housing (currently all except our kids live in farm housing) and gas. (We have charge accts for them at a local station.)

As Jerry said in an earlier post-- we both avoid deductions-- accidents do happen and as the crew improves many of the small things (like cows out) are not an issue. In the past part timers (yes teens :roll: ) were most likely to mix pens while the fulltimers got to unmix them. Now you mix-- you unmix.
(The deduction exception:eek:ur kids. At 16 I started deducting for late for shifts and poor work habits-- got down to half pay sometimes lol --since I had the "power of the paycheck" they knew they would get exactly what they earned ;-) All got to pay me if it took more than a couple of wake-up calls or reminders to get them to work on time. Figured that if I needed to play babysitter I should get paid for doing it-- in cash of course to make it more painful. LOL) We try to make employees responsible to each other as much as possible... and them having to call others in to help with a goof up seems to do that. (Kind of a dis-incentive plan :lol: )Our herdsman takes care of many of the smaller issues.

We have taken money out of the bonus pot to pay someone to clean the parlor when the employees started ignoring (1x) and have required people to fix problem they created (like cow mix-ups) they make on their own time.

As for our parlor, we have a double 6 flatbarn with walk through stalls, Germania Model B arm takeoffs, and an air crowd gate. With the barns being overcrowded we have 2 on for all shifts with both in the parlor for most of the low group and TLC groups. A good milker can run 65 cows/hour through working alone in the high cow and high heifer pens while the second milker scrapes and cleans waterers, etc. A huge time advantage is that we do not to need to hold up the whole group for that odd slower cow. Today we put 320 through each milking.With the new parlor (2x16) we expect to have 2 on each shift with one spending time alone while cows are moved, prefresh cows checked, etc. We are hoping to be able to do some grouping by milkout speed as our flatbarn has taught us much about how slow cows effect efficiencies. While a 2x16 is a little much for one person, it will more fully utilize that 2nd person. Labor costs year to year can easily out run the capital investment costs that gain efficiencies.

We, too, put alot of effort into keeping very clean attractive facilities (4 sites). We live on the main farm and made a conscious decision that the view out our window would not change just because we had employees.

Our first hispanic answered an ad in a paper. We suspected during his second interview that he exceptional. He spent his first three years working with me daily and I saw first hand how quickly he learned and how much he pursued learning. Training has had costs, as always, but his learning curve was very fast. Learning to communicate was also fun- we used some sharades and alot of stick people drawings :D He was the one who asked if his brother could come. When a spot opened we said yes. Then he asked if another newly graduated brother could come- we didn't realize that the "graduate" was from U-Mexico in international trade!! Another exceptional individual. We've had many hispanics apply (the stories we could tell lol) but the hurdle here is high and having a bi-lingual herdsman helps our interviewing process immensely. I know of farms where no one in management knows Spanish and the employees know only a little English leaving no communication on some shifts. Then the farmer bemoans things not getting done right.

Our baseline for hiring is good work references, a comfort level around large animals, and being detail oriented. Several of our best cow handlers were folks with horse experience. Can't really categorize milking experienced vs none as we have had good and bad experiences with both. Comfort around animals comes out clearly in our parlor and detail oriented can be spotted in the questions asked by them during the walk around part of the interview.

Linda
 
milkmaid,
I think that Linda answered most of your questions but I would like to dive into the interview process further. Now keep in mind here that this is the way that WE approch this, I have only been interviewed once in my life and never worked in a human resources deptment. Also important to keep in mind, "There is always more than one way to skin a cat".

To begin with all that apply get an application, We have a thourough one. This is true wether we already know them or not. Most of the info is there because it would be needed later for payroll. However when I get an app back, I look at two things. First could they articulate well and are all blanks filled in? This because what we are really hiring is attention to detail, ability to complete a job, etc. So this is thier first chance to make an impression, and you know what they say about first impressions! Secondly is references. What we find out here will support our first impression or not. Never leave gaps, there is nothing wrong with having had a bad experience. That can be explained, If past employment has gaps you may never get the chance to explain it! When we call refereces we are looking for a concensus not just perfection. It is so important to, if at all possible , part ways from a job in the best terms that you can manage and always give proper notice.

Now the best part, The interview: The interview for me is really a conversation about no particular thing, Just what comes up and eventualy the job will come up. We will do the obvious, talk about what you expect and what I expect. we will talk about past experience.

I will finish this later, Jerry
 
I like your incentives program. If I had a little bit more sway with my boss I'd mention this. ;-) Perhaps when the time is right.

From a previous post of mine where I showed a pic I think you can figure that we cannot go releasing individual cows. Thus we do commonly have to wait on one slow cow, or my partner has to wait while I treat. This is the only disadvantage of that design, and I guess is easily overlooked when you consider the speed in which you can run cows through. Timing is so important there. You prep correctly and I have never seen the herd go past 78/hour. Sure, by racing through procedures I can get 110/hour, but we get a 1500 lb. drop in the end. This is one thing that I wish the boss was more tuned into when they impose time limits.

I had the privelege of milking with the herd manager in late May/2005. This is a huge rarity for me, but at that time I was still on my school schedule and their daughter did a no-show. At any rate, he mentioned that the boss had told him he'd made me a good offer. To which I was responded "yes, but I can't figure out why?" He said two things made me stand out above the others, dependability (I've never pulled a no-show or been late), and that I "know what I'm doing when I get there." Now the herd manager easily calls me his "best" milker, which I respond to with, "I certainly hope so! I'm not up against much!" :) To be honest with you we never really talked beyond me staying there 2 years, so I'm not sure what the vacation does after that. I'll be there 3 years in August, but since I only went full time in July 2005 I am now only eligible for that 1 week. (Already planning that trip, btw.) :)

I am the oldest milker there, herd manager is quite a bit older. That should tell you something. I have had my share of problems with the "kids". I used to come there on Sunday nights and cross my fingers I could make it through a shift without treating. While that has lessened with the SCC dropping, Sunday nights remain the only night where I commonly make more then 2nd shift, sometimes 1st shift.

Interview questions...I don't ever feel like I went through a formal interview. I went over there for a visit, referred by my dad who they knew from doing custom work. They asked two questions, "What is your current wage?" and "What is the SCC?" They walked me through the dairy and began talking of potential start dates. It was that fast. I know at that point they were quite inexperienced with hiring. The dairy had only been in operation a full year. I've heard since then that they have changed it somewhat, actually giving the new potential hire a change to milk to see if they like it. Perhaps they just assumed I would because I was coming from a flatbarn. lol

I trained one gal, and overall am very happy with the results. She's a 16 year old, and my only problem with her is keeping her motivated. I realize full well by the end of 400 cows you are getting tired, for sure if you only milk once or twice a week. But I hate to see performance slacking simply because of this. I can tell my one partner at the start of the shift, "Let's try to get a clean filter tonight." This will get results. I certainly can't whine about his washing job. On the other hand this gal just doesn't care. The milkers have digital screens that show the cows individual pounds, and I basically have to monitor the entire parlor to insure everyone is being milked out. While I don't expect my partner to know what I know, I would appreciate them at least checking pounds before post-spraying. I have the benefit of being there 6 days a week, and, knowing not only what the cow milked like yesterday, but her current SCC and the last couple of months.
What would you recommend for me as far as motivating a partner to do a good job? Beyond the bosses daughter (who no-one can change) I am fast running out of options. Partner puts on milkers, and I end up checking and balancing all 24. It's a fine line between nagging and correcting. Can you help me here? Once when I asked the boss about this he simply responded with "that's your job as lead milker" and dropped the subject. Opinions?

Mixing pens...this is totally preventable, which only adds to the irritation when it happens. It comes from people either forgetting to close gates, or, running a new pen in behind the few cows from that last pen in the parlor. I've mixed up one or two, and made sure the herd manager was aware of this. I've also tried to make him aware of when my partner does it, mainly so I don't get blamed for something I didn't do. :)

I let the cows outside once, and it will never happen again. I also milked a treated cow into the tank once shortly after I'd started there, but got lucky because she was actually good. That also is a mistake I will never repeat. I like your approach that mistakes happen, and for the most part the herd manager shares the same opinion. The boss tends to be a bit less forgiving.

Holding pen...has an airdriven crowd gate (Usher H.R.S-- by Blue Diamond). Recognize that? Anyway, it has safety hoses on it that prevent the gate from actually going over a cow. However it still is possible to drop cows with the gate and not realize it, or have a ketotic or "hot" cow go down back there and not be aware of it until the pen is almost empty.

We have the same system that you intend to utilize in your new facility as far as partners. Two are in there until the end when one of us leaves for another pen. Freestall barn has auto-scrapers, but we still have to scrape stalls and alleys by the waterers, as well as back by the doors where the scrapers back up to. As far as cleaning waterers, that's my job. Summers I do it everyday, winters every other day. I go in 1 1/2 hours early every day and clean, either the waterers or powerwashing walls, etc.
 
milkmaid,
Ok back to it!
What I mean to say here is that the things we looking for are more abstact than, "do you know how to milk a cow?" After all, your references have already told me that you do know how to milk a cow or that you catch on to things quickly. The things that we would be looking at might be like this: Punctuality is important--so did he/she show up on time? We like our milking center tidy-- but garbage rolled out of the car when they got out.......... hmmm? We have a strict no smoking policy and he said that was fine but once we got into the office my eyes were watering from the smell of smoke! As we talked along he kept on griping about his past employer and co-workers,nothing seemed to ever be good enough-- Wow would he talk about me like that someday? or spread his discontent? Another thing that speaks volumes is dress-- flashy? Clean? Neat? Looks like they will fit in?

Let me tell you a story about meeting our current herdsman. He arrived at our door in reply to an ad and we gave him an app. Since he was standing there we asked a couple questions and it came out that he had milked cows before. Since the ad was for a herdsman we thought.. ok.. interesting and he left with the app. The next day he returned and told us that he felt that he had mislead us, he had milked cows but just a vey few on his Grandfather's farm in Mexico. He said that he wanted to be honest but also wanted the job and was willing to learn. Again he left and Linda and I turned to each other and said how can we go wrong with that kind of honesty and integrity and willingness to learn?? So the point is that the conversation simply facilitates the chance for red flags to pop up and for us to get a stonge gut feeling about how he/she would fit in and teir ability to do the job.


So for the other side? In our case we have a very thourough work description for each key position that would be given out prior to the interview along with our mission statement and policies. This is a clear acounting of our expectations of you and since it is written down it can be your protection as well. If something doesn`t make sense to you..........Question us.(With good taste) Learn to look for those same types of things talked about above........ Do we fumble with the answer like there may be some gray area in there. During the walk through you notice other employees swearing back and forth and talking of their latest sexual conquest. Can you live with this? If this has been acceptable here it is not likley to change just because you arrived. You notice that no one moving cattle has a stick and you firmely believe that a club is important and that using it gets your shift over quicker. You are not likley to change the herdspersons idea on that one so this may not work out? Again it`s all about red flags and gut feelings!

After all this stuff all there is left is some simple negotiations and your all set.


I must go soak my fingers!!!! Jerry
 
First off, Jerry and Linda, big, big thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions and explain things! :D Really appreciate it.

I was a bit confused at first as to how you could run 65 cows an hour through, but I think I understand now. Flat barn, eh? Where I work it's similar to how born2run's parlor is...all cows in, all cows out, at once. We only have a front gate - no "all exit" capabilities. But on the other hand, I can and do put cows that I know are slow in the last stall in the barn, and then move them to the front stall after the others in their set finish. We have a few cows that, when fresh, take as long as two "sets" to milk out. And we don't have a crowd gate, which means I'll have to go out and bring the cows in.

Boss told me once he didn't think we could put more than 50 cows/hour through no matter how fast we were going or how many people we in the barn. Well, at least not more than that and still do a good job. LOL.

Some of the things you listed I know I don't have a problem with. Never ever pulled a no-show. Can't even contemplate doing such a thing. No problems with being on time either...I keep my time card very consistent - early. ;-) Don't smoke. Or drink. :lol: :p And I have a really good boss; won't hear me complaining about him. No problem with keeping things tidy; I like 'em clean too. And organized. So those kind of things are easy for me.

What about dress? What kind of milking attire is usual on your place and most dairies? I'm used to working in a modest tshirt and jeans during the summer, coveralls in the winter. Obviously where I'm working with cows my attire has to be appropriate for that...and okay if it gets covered in manure. LOL.

How about some other stuff? I'm guessing you have contact with other dairies and have an idea of what's generally expected as far as knowledge and abilities? Some areas I'm strong in - others I'm not. Would you mind if I gave you a little rundown of what I know and don't know, and you give me an idea of what I need to learn?

(FWIW, I'm headed to college on the west coast; I'm not trying to give you my resume or anything along those lines. LOL. I am not looking forward to leaving where I'm at now - I really like it here - but I can't stay at home forever and my folks have convinced me I really need to go to college. So that's why I'll be leaving this fall, and boss has been aware of that since I first started working there. It's just not every day that I get to ask what a larger dairy is looking for in an employee, what an interview is like, and what kind of things are basic-need-to-know. Just wondering what I need to work on. ;-))

Again, I really appreciate your taking the time to answer these questions! And thanks for sharing that story about your herdsman with me...I know I always like people being straight forward and honest too. But then who doesn't? :)
 
Jerry...

I too found it interesting to read your post on how you judge character. Reminds me of something I heard when I was in college regarding a LE interview. Simply put, that you are being "interviewed" from the time you first drive into that facility. One of the hiring panel of a department actually discounted someone based on the bumper stickers from his car. I am pleased to see that you value character in equality to skills. I do believe this is solely what has helped me climb the pay ladder at my current job. While my skills are definitely a bonus, it's the work ethic that is the biggest asset.

So your herd manager had no experience, but you were willing to train him. That shows something about you! :) From what I see from most dairies they want years of experience as well the capabilities to AI immediately.

I have the desire to learn, and learn. If I was able to I'd go back to the dairy at least once a week during the day and simply observe and get hands on experience. While I can run the parlor with ease, and do basic maintenance, I don't know a lot when it comes to diagnosing and treating diseases. What I've learned about diagnosing and treating mastitis is 100% self-taught.

I'd be curious also to know if you supply uniforms for your employees? Here we work in attire similar to what Milkmaid mentioned. In the summers almost everyone seems to switch to shorts, including myself.
 
Good to here from you again Milkmaid,


We fully understand that neither you or born2run are applying for a job here or asking us to look at your resume. And that really is the beauty of this kind of thing. We don`t really know you and you don`t really know us. That allows for a very free flow of info, a chance to be completely frank in our discusions. This has been great for us, as well, because actually haveing to quote our veiws to someone causes us to think about those views and therefore do some reassesing of our own.

Also want to be clear about the examples that I used when talking about interviews. With the exception of the story about our heardsman all of the examples that I used were hypathetical (sure wish there was a spell check), some realistic and some kind of absurd, Not trying to assume your atributs .Those situations, for you and the employer ,are all relative to your values/standards and his values/standards.I think that large employers would have diferent views but for a small family organization, (which most farms still really are),our employees are like family to us. The difference is we do get to pick them or they pick us. As the head of this "family" our job is to, along with making sure the work gets done, protect this group and facilitate its healthy growth. For us and our empoyees, there is nothing worse than ending each day feeling that we spent it trying to pound square pegs into round holes. That is why I spent so much time on how to make sure that all parties are comfortable as they come together. As a potential hiree you have some power here........... learn to recognize it and use it.


Go ahead and give us that run down of strengths and weaknesses and we will take a look.
We will be glad to share with you the actual qualification needed to work here as well as some other farms that we know about, After I rest my fingers, Thanks for your patience!

Jerry
 
Born2run

With our heardsman, This was a diferent time for us , we were smaller then and Linda and I were much more involved in the day to day operations. He is the first in that position here. It was very satisfying to watch him grow to a point today where he is as or more qualified than we are. I think that if faced with it, we would be forced to look at this diferenly today. The good news is that he has passed much of his skills on to his co-workers. This is kind of a safety net for us. Maybe we could pull that off again?

We have uniforms available now, some use them but not required. In the new dairy we may supply personal unforms.
Other than our son, I don`t think there is an opinion one way or the other now.

Glad to here that you have a desire to learn, that will serve you well.

Jerry
 
I don't suppose you'll be letting your current herdsman go anytime soon, so it's not something that you really think about. :) I've had some interesting talks with our herd manager, and he's told me about the stress that comes along with the job. How he's kicked himself over and over when a cow dies, even though he did all he could. I can only imagine how I'd treat myself. Maybe by the time I hit my late 30's I could tackle the job of herd manager, but certainly not currently. Coming from a small herd to a mid-sized one is so vastly different. I could sometimes swear how I grew up and how this place is ran is a night/day difference. I understand some places, like Horizon (where I actually had an interview offer from) run different then family farms. I suppose there it falls more into a factory style management system?

I agree that I like the openess we have here, because this is all stuff I had wondered about, but dared not ask my boss. If someone came up and started asking you questions about interviews and other dairies, wouldn't you think they were considering quitting? lol While I freely admit I would quit if the right opportunity presented itself, I am quite happy there overall. I feel as long as I can continue to learn than I will be happy. Since their plans include expansion I am fairly certain that I will eventually be advanced somehow. At this point I'm willing to stick it out and see what that will be.

Uniforms...we have farm sweatshirts and coats. :) That's it. With the day shifts I suppose it would be more of a requirement where you have people coming and going. At nights it's pretty well understood with anyone who wonders in there that I work there. :)

You say your son intends to buy 75 more. Springers or lactating stock? Do you see the cattle price dropping anytime soon in conjuction with the falling milk prices? Curious as to how you see the futures of milk prices? Going up by late summer or not?
 
I watch milk prices constantly. Today is good day at the Merc. I am absolutly sure milk prices will be lower than last year. How low is the question? From what I read production is up however consumption has kept right up with it. This time of the year is terrable for market direction so with close supply and demand, the higher production figures and the usuall "spring flush" mentality, the futures price has just sliped away. I believe prices will strenghthen to 12.00 in late spring and maybe another .50-1.00 by fall. So much depends upon the summer heat and feed supplies. I am probably waaaaaaaaaaay wrong!

Jerry
 

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