Dairy and Dairy Cross Calves Raised for Beef

[WalnutCrest]

We have a group of Aubrac sired calves coming out of a Jersey dairy here in a couple of months.

Bulls for young beef and heifers for possible recips.

 

[Bullitt]

Yeah, kinda short for me :lol: :lol: :lol:

It was good information. It seems you have to search for good nurse cows, and then if nurse cows are purchased, raising drop calves would be a long-term project.

It would be much easier if the calves could be purchased from the dairies at two months old when the calves can eat hay.

 

[Bullitt]

We have a group of Aubrac sired calves coming out of a Jersey dairy here in a couple of months.

Bulls for young beef and heifers for possible recips.

There is another way to use the heifers -- implant them with embryos.

How much does it cost per embryo? Do you implant them yourself? What breed of cattle do you implant?

 

[WalnutCrest]

We have a group of Aubrac sired calves coming out of a Jersey dairy here in a couple of months.

Bulls for young beef and heifers for possible recips.

There is another way to use the heifers -- implant them with embryos.

How much does it cost per embryo? Do you implant them yourself? What breed of cattle do you implant?

We use Aubrac semen on Jersey cows.

The resulting bull calves are sold as young beef and the heifers are retained for development to be recip cows.

We raise fullblood Aubrac and Mashona cattle and F1s (each direction).

 

[Bullitt]

We use Aubrac semen on Jersey cows.

The resulting bull calves are sold as young beef and the heifers are retained for development to be recip cows.

We raise fullblood Aubrac and Mashona cattle and F1s (each direction).

Maybe I do not know all the lingo. I was thinking recips was short for recipient cows, as in recipients of embryos.

What are recips?

I had to look up Mashona cattle. It seems Mashona cattle share some similar traits as Brahman cattle.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Probably more Angus (red and black) influence than anything. Some of the biggest Limi breeders in the country are up her in WI and MN, but they have a more select following and less breed based marketing compared to Angus. The rare time we send one of our Limis through a sale barn, they usually top the area sales for the week, not just day. Having said that, we breed for a mainstream look. Most people can tell they are Limis, but they don't have the super round hip and fine bone many people associate with the breed. We have Red Angus, Black Angus, Limis and the Lim-flex composites. We shoot for an animal that has breed character, but fits the modern market and can compete in the ring. This is a group of fall born Red Angus sired calves out of our Limi cows.

Those calves look good.

Are you saying the red calves do as well in the sale barn there as black calves in general, or do you just have outstanding red calves?

I like to think we have outstanding calves, but in reality, good reds do just as well as good blacks here. I have several customers that buy/lease bulls from me prefer a red bull, be it red Angus or red Limi.

 

[WalnutCrest]

We use Aubrac semen on Jersey cows.

The resulting bull calves are sold as young beef and the heifers are retained for development to be recip cows.

We raise fullblood Aubrac and Mashona cattle and F1s (each direction).

Maybe I do not know all the lingo. I was thinking recips was short for recipient cows, as in recipients of embryos.

What are recips?

I had to look up Mashona cattle. It seems Mashona cattle share some similar traits as Brahman cattle.

You're (sorta) right.

A heifer (or cow) isn't a recip until the embryo is implanted and sticks.

Until then, they're just heifers and cows.

 

[farmerjan]

It would be nice if a dairy would raise the calves up to weaning and eating good. But realize that staight dairy calves CANNOT just be turned out on grass or fed just hay from weaning to about 5-600 lbs. The bulls/steers will be pot gutted, and do very poorly because they have been bred for so long to need higher protein and supplements in order for them to grow well. The heifers will have poor growth and not be able to reach their potential as a milk cow. Once I wean, they will get some grain and good hay or pasture until they are near a year. Then the jerseys will do pretty good on just grass. But they still will never gain like a beef breed animal that has been developed and encouraged to "rustle their own grub".
Realize too that the hardest part of raising a dairy calf is the first 3 months. And the most costly. And due to that and many having space restrictions, few dairies will raise up their bull calves. Those that do, figure that they will keep them until they are in the 7-900 lb size. Most do it to "pay the taxes" as they say. Then the steers will go to someone who will either graze them up to 1200 and then finish them, or they will go directly to a finisher who will put them on feed.

Getting good nurse cows is the trick. Not all cows will take other calves. I find that the ones I raise from calves often are more accepting than the ones I have bought. But not always. My guernseys tend to be more accepting, but these last few 3/4 jersey 1/4 holsteins have been sweethearts. Up until this last jersey, I have had pretty good luck with them. I did not raise this one but bought her as a bred heifer with a bad quarter for cull price. She had been bred AI and had a jersey heifer, so I got a good deal. The heifer has recently been bred, so am hoping to have better luck with her. I also try to get all my nurse cows to accept being milked by hand in case I need to do so for any reason. It makes it a little easier to get them to let the calves on them because they are used to being fooled with.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Getting good nurse cows is the trick. Not all cows will take other calves. I find that the ones I raise from calves often are more accepting than the ones I have bought. But not always. My guernseys tend to be more accepting, but these last few 3/4 jersey 1/4 holsteins have been sweethearts. Up until this last jersey, I have had pretty good luck with them.

If you were trying to buy "sweet heart" nurse cows -- would you look for older cows, or HoJo crosses, or ?

 

[farmerjan]

Boy, Steve, that's a loaded question.... :hide: Put me on the spot
It's hard to really say, but I have found that older cows either are great or are horrible. The younger ones tend to be more "kicky", and are faster, so it is hard to get away if they take a notion. So I tend to go with older cows. Over the years many of mine were stockyard cows, so you took what you could get and afford. Right now any dairy animal that is in milk is worth little more than cull price due to farmers selling older cows and surpluses of heifers as replacements at bargain prices. Straight holsteins usually make too much milk, but I have had a few.

Actually, as a rule I don't especially care for the hol/jer cross. I have had many over the years, and they tend to be more tempermental if acquired at maturity. They also tend to have udders that will fall apart in the 3rd or 4th lactation or older; center ligament support just lets go. But these last 2 are out of hol/jerseys, bred jer so are 3/4 jersey, and they are both really accepting. I still like the guernseys a little better, but they are very hard to find. And there aren't many of the "old style" ones around. Today's guernseys were bred to be "too dairy" and they sacrificed both the old rawboned type, and the fertility to make them more dairy looking and milk more. They are often much more frail looking today, and even harder to get bred than the older ones were.

Any of the 1/2 hol/jer, I breed back jersey. And right now have bred a bunch to Aubrac to see how the calves come out. I also have bred a couple of jerseys to guernsey semen to get the brindle crosses, and will breed them back again to guernsey.
Mostly, many cows will take calves if you get their calf away when they come fresh, then let their calf and any new ones all go on them at the same time. I do that and they are so happy to have "their baby" back, and glad to get relief from the pressure in their udder, that they will let the other calves nurse too. I separate them for the first week or 2 so that the only time they get their calf is when they get all the calves. Then after the milk goes through the calf, it will smell right to the cow, and they will go from just tolerating, to some outright claiming the calves. The fostered calves also learn pretty quick that they have to go on the cow when the cows' own calf goes on to nurse.

 

[Stocker Steve]

It's hard to really say, but I have found that older cows either are great or are horrible. The younger ones tend to be more "kicky", and are faster, so it is hard to get away if they take a notion. So I tend to go with older cows. quote]

We end up with 3 or 4 extra calves per year from the beef herd. My wife loves to bottle feed them for a week or two. Gets to be work after that. I promised her a "good nurse cow" next spring. Holsteins are common here, but there are a couple jersey cows going thru the sales barn each week. Sounds like I should buy three old late lactation Jerseys and keep the one that does not kick much?

 

[milkmaid]

We end up with 3 or 4 extra calves per year from the beef herd. My wife loves to bottle feed them for a week or two. Gets to be work after that. I promised her a "good nurse cow" next spring. Holsteins are common here, but there are a couple jersey cows going thru the sales barn each week. Sounds like I should buy three old late lactation Jerseys and keep the one that does not kick much?

....I'd also have them tested for Johnes, esp if you plan to keep the bottle calves.

Going through sale barns is risky, the reasons we cull them (I'm currently working for a 14,000 cow dairy) include mastitis (mycoplasma and staph aureus culture positive sometimes), lameness, low milk production, open... some problems you can deal with, some you can't/don't want to. I'd try contacting a progressive local dairy and ask to look over their culls. We cull far harder than most people but often have nice, bred, late lactation cows that don't produce enough milk/are too fat to stay.

 

[Bullitt]

I see advertisements on Craigslist of people selling milk cows and sometimes milk cows with a calf. They will usually explain in the ad if the cow is easy to milk and if she is a good nurse cow. Based on the ads I have seen, it seems like Jersey cows are more likely to be good nurse cows.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I'd try contacting a progressive local dairy and ask to look over their culls. We cull far harder than most people but often have nice, bred, late lactation cows that don't produce enough milk/are too fat to stay.

Thanks for the tips. I was thinking about late lactation 3 titters, but going direct to a diary would be the safest bet.

 

[Bullitt]

This is the easy way to feed a bunch of bottle calves.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

OMG - I love it!!!!

 

[farmerjan]

That calf feeder is quite the thing. The only thing I would worry about is some getting too much milk and scouring.
Several of the dairies that I have tested for, have a multiple calf nipple feeder, one is called a milk bar I think. Has 5 nipples, hangs over a fence board. The inside is divided off partway up so that the calves each get approx the right amount of milk. The biggest problem that I have with having multiple bottle babies housed in the same pen is they will suck each other, and get on the navel area and the ears etc.
Milkmaid has the right idea, going directly to a dairy. See if they have a couple of cows that don't make the cut as far as production goes. There are alot of decent milk cows that are being culled on somatic cell count or low production now because there are alot of replacements around and they can be had fairly cheap. Some scc can be dealt with and if it is going to be a calf feeder, and milked constantly, sometimes that can take care of it unless it is a chronic problem. One of the dairy farmers I test for has reg holsteins and reg brown swiss. He has sold 3 as family cows because they just weren't making the milk he needed to justify keeping them. They would have just gone to slaughter. I think 2 were bred and one just fresh. A holstein isn't a bad nurse cow. Just some make alot of milk and you might have to milk once a day as well as the calves nursing, for awhile when they first come fresh....or do what I did one time; had a holstein that was a great dispositioned nurse cow. Made alot of milk, I put 6 calves on her. Let 4 in, then pulled 2 off, put 2 more on, then pulled off the first 2 so that they all got a fairly equal amount of milk. She'd let anything nurse, so after a little while they all just stayed with her and everyone seemed to get plenty to eat.
Nurse cows are great if you have the patience to deal with them. And if you get a good one they are wonderful, if you get a b$#@% they need to have a big mac attack.
I bought a guernsey at the stock yards, years ago that was sold because the owner had had a stroke and couldn't milk her anymore. She was 8, I was her second owner, and I buried her at 16. Got another from a friend that had gotten mastitis on a dairy, got her cleared up, but she would get a mood and kick for no reason, just out of the blue, and after 3 months I told him she had to go, I'd tried everything. She went to the stockyards.

 

[farmerjan]

Also, you might ask at the sale barn who brought in the cull cows you are looking over. That is how I got the guernsey that I bought. They told me the family that brought her in, said there was no one to milk her and the grandkids were going to college and they had to get rid of her. Guess they had tried to sell her and couldn't. I was lucky that day, and so was she I guess.
But going to a local dairy might be just the best way ....Milkmaid is in Idaho...time for a road trip????