Dairy and Dairy Cross Calves Raised for Beef

[Bullitt]

I see on Craigslist that dairies often sell dairy calves and dairy crossed calves for little money. I see dairy bull calves for as little as $25 each. The dairy cross calves are usually more.

I was curious. Has anyone used a nurse cow to put a few dairy or dairy cross calves on and then sold the calves?

I realize that dairy cattle will not sell as well as beef cattle, and the dairy cross will sell a little better than straight dairy cattle, but it seems they are so cheap that they could make money.

 

[Cada22]

You will lose a few here and there and will see some increased feed costs then most likely take a beating at the stockyard when you go to sell them. Might work if you can build a local market for farm raised beef. Will still take a slight cut in selling price if going this route too.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

That has been done "forever". Not sure if anyone on this forum does it. But, it has been done, and is still being done.
You need to be pretty good at keeping newborns alive - not so easy with sale barn dairy calves, but lots of people do it.

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

When my wife and I were just getting started, we would keep as many as 75 bucket calves at a time. It's a lot of work, and you have to stay on top of any problems, or they'll lay down and die. It is possible to make $ on them, but I think the guy/gal that owns them after weaning is the one to make the money. If you can get them straight from the dairy, and avoid the sale barn, it will greatly improve your bottom line......no matter if it's red or black.

 

[Bullitt]

I know many of you have heard of this before, but this is a good idea. They cross Jersey cows with a Limousin bull to get good beef cattle.

I see this cross is being sold for $250 per bull calf. I wonder if the heifers would be good for breeding?

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/grd/d ... 47898.html


It seems Wulf Cattle developed this idea. http://www.beefmagazine.com/cattle-gene ... nefit-both

 

[Ky hills]

I did raise dairy calves on nurse cows for a while. At the time I could get calves straight from dairies, they typically were healthy and did ok. The cows can be a range from easy to work with to pains in the rear to accept new calves. I usually tried to have 3-4 calves on a cow, and wean them in 2-3 months and start over, it was generally easier if they had their own calf, sometimes if the calf was a Jersey, it was small and could be left on the cow longer.
I did however go back to bottling during the last couple years of the calf raising, it just seemed easier than having to deal with kicking cows and wrestling with calves to get them to nurse the cows.
I did think that it made some money with around 80-100 calves a year. One thing that helped me was that at the time dairy heifers had quite a bit of value, and I was able to get heifers as well as bulls. Then was able to turn around and sell the heifers back to the dairy, or if they didn't want them there was a dairy auction option.

I would caution that it is risky when buying dairy calves, as lots of them don't get adequate colostrum, and are transported across several states and then advertised to sell. I have lost several calves from those kinds of deals.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

I know many of you have heard of this before, but this is a good idea. They cross Jersey cows with a Limousin bull to get good beef cattle.

I see this cross is being sold for $250 per bull calf. I wonder if the heifers would be good for breeding?

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/grd/d ... 47898.html


It seems Wulf Cattle developed this idea. http://www.beefmagazine.com/cattle-gene ... nefit-both

It works for WULF for many reasons, the foremost being that they have market for the steers. They don't run 5 or 10 through a sale ring at a time. They are the largest supplier of Limousin influenced cattle into the food chain in this country. Don't make the mistake of thinking that it will work just a well or even the same for someone on a smaller scale. Crossing beef with dairy is nothing new, WULF just found a way to capitalize on it.

 

[Bullitt]

It works for WULF for many reasons, the foremost being that they have market for the steers. They don't run 5 or 10 through a sale ring at a time. They are the largest supplier of Limousin influenced cattle into the food chain in this country. Don't make the mistake of thinking that it will work just a well or even the same for someone on a smaller scale. Crossing beef with dairy is nothing new, WULF just found a way to capitalize on it.

Thank you.

As I wrote earlier, I know dairy cattle or dairy cross cattle will sell for less than straight beef cattle.

It makes sense that it works better on a large scale.

What does anyone think about using the Jersey X Limousin heifers for momma cows? A black Angus or black Limousin bull could be bred to the heifers to produce the black calves the market likes. I think this would produce some nice cattle, and it could be started cheaply by buying heifers at $250 each. For $3,000 a person could buy a dozen heifers and then grow from there.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

You could certainly breed those Limi X Dairy heifers to a calving ease Limi or Angus bull. I have zero experience with the cross as mommas though. The fact is though, you will continue to sell the offspring at a discount for at least a couple of generations to breed the dairy look out of the calves. If you are selling at a stockyard, be prepared for a dock on price. It really comes down to quality VS quantity. You may be better off buying a few head less of some good F1 beef bred females that have a documented history from a known seller than buying some unknowns for a bargain. What is the end game of your program? Do you want to get to the end game faster or cheaper?

 

[Bullitt]

You could certainly breed those Limi X Dairy heifers to a calving ease Limi or Angus bull. I have zero experience with the cross as mommas though. The fact is though, you will continue to sell the offspring at a discount for at least a couple of generations to breed the dairy look out of the calves. If you are selling at a stockyard, be prepared for a dock on price. It really comes down to quality VS quantity. You may be better off buying a few head less of some good F1 beef bred females that have a documented history from a known seller than buying some unknowns for a bargain. What is the end game of your program? Do you want to get to the end game faster or cheaper?

You are probably right that starting off with a half dozen good beef heifers would probably make more sense than using a dozen dairy cross heifers.

I know buying heifer calves is not the fast way to go about building a herd, but it is the cheapest way I know of.

I like the Black Baldies. I think Hereford heifers crossed with an Angus bull would be good. Then the heifers produced could be put back in the herd and bred to the Angus bull to keep the calves mostly black, as the market likes. Black Baldies seem to sell well everywhere.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

You could certainly breed those Limi X Dairy heifers to a calving ease Limi or Angus bull. I have zero experience with the cross as mommas though. The fact is though, you will continue to sell the offspring at a discount for at least a couple of generations to breed the dairy look out of the calves. If you are selling at a stockyard, be prepared for a dock on price. It really comes down to quality VS quantity. You may be better off buying a few head less of some good F1 beef bred females that have a documented history from a known seller than buying some unknowns for a bargain. What is the end game of your program? Do you want to get to the end game faster or cheaper?

You are probably right that starting off with a half dozen good beef heifers would probably make more sense than using a dozen dairy cross heifers.

I know buying heifer calves is not the fast way to go about building a herd, but it is the cheapest way I know of.

I like the Black Baldies. I think Hereford heifers crossed with an Angus bull would be good. Then the heifers produced could be put back in the herd and bred to the Angus bull to keep the calves mostly black, as the market likes. Black Baldies seem to sell well everywhere.

True to a certain extent in regards to the baldies. I am in NW WI, and here, any white will get you a dock at the barn. Solid red or black sell well, but pretty much anything else will take a hit. The only people in our area who have shorthorns, Herefords, commercial baldies, etc. either sell on the grid/under contract for fats, or make most of their money in seed stock and can justify the hit they take on sale ring marketed calves. I think some good F1s are a great option for a person new to the game. Just let your area markets and overall plan for the herd dictate what specific cross to start with and how to build on it.

 

[Bullitt]

True to a certain extent in regards to the baldies. I am in NW WI, and here, any white will get you a dock at the barn. Solid red or black sell well, but pretty much anything else will take a hit. The only people in our area who have shorthorns, Herefords, commercial baldies, etc. either sell on the grid/under contract for fats, or make most of their money in seed stock and can justify the hit they take on sale ring marketed calves. I think some good F1s are a great option for a person new to the game. Just let your area markets and overall plan for the herd dictate what specific cross to start with and how to build on it.

Yes, it would be good to hit the sale barns in any area to see what is selling well.

From what I have been reading here lately, it seems the North is the least forgiving on cattle breeds. The South is more excepting of Brahman-influenced cattle like Brangus because they handle the heat better in the South, whereas they cannot handle the cold well so are not accepted in the North. A person here said Brahman X Hereford that make tiger stripe calves is popular in Texas. And I know Black Baldies are popular in the South.

So it is solid black or solid red in the North, but without Brahman influence. I am guessing you see a lot of Angus and Limousin there.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Probably more Angus (red and black) influence than anything. Some of the biggest Limi breeders in the country are up her in WI and MN, but they have a more select following and less breed based marketing compared to Angus. The rare time we send one of our Limis through a sale barn, they usually top the area sales for the week, not just day. Having said that, we breed for a mainstream look. Most people can tell they are Limis, but they don't have the super round hip and fine bone many people associate with the breed. We have Red Angus, Black Angus, Limis and the Lim-flex composites. We shoot for an animal that has breed character, but fits the modern market and can compete in the ring. This is a group of fall born Red Angus sired calves out of our Limi cows.

 

[Stocker Steve]

What does anyone think about using the Jersey X Limousin heifers for momma cows? A black Angus or black Limousin bull could be bred to the heifers to produce the black calves the market likes.

A cross of dissimilar breeds will usually give you a wide range of outcomes. So yes, it will work if you can and do sort enough. My guess is you will need to cull over half the heifers to get the kind you want.

 

[Bullitt]

Probably more Angus (red and black) influence than anything. Some of the biggest Limi breeders in the country are up her in WI and MN, but they have a more select following and less breed based marketing compared to Angus. The rare time we send one of our Limis through a sale barn, they usually top the area sales for the week, not just day. Having said that, we breed for a mainstream look. Most people can tell they are Limis, but they don't have the super round hip and fine bone many people associate with the breed. We have Red Angus, Black Angus, Limis and the Lim-flex composites. We shoot for an animal that has breed character, but fits the modern market and can compete in the ring. This is a group of fall born Red Angus sired calves out of our Limi cows.

Those calves look good.

Are you saying the red calves do as well in the sale barn there as black calves in general, or do you just have outstanding red calves?

 

[Bullitt]

What does anyone think about using the Jersey X Limousin heifers for momma cows? A black Angus or black Limousin bull could be bred to the heifers to produce the black calves the market likes.

A cross of dissimilar breeds will usually give you a wide range of outcomes. So yes, it will work if you can and do sort enough. My guess is you will need to cull over half the heifers to get the kind you want.

This may be what another member was trying to warm me about when he asked, why reinvent the wheel?

Starting out with the Jersey X Limousin heifers would almost be like creating a breed. As you said, the calves would have to be culled hard to really improve the herd. As was mentioned, it is probably much easier to just buy quality heifers/cows to start with rather than breeding several generations to get quality cattle and good prices.

It is always a trade-off -- time or money. Spend more money upfront for quality or spend more time developing quality.

I am just exploring ways of doing things.

 

[BRYANT]

They say them dairy cattle are the best beef you can eat and will grade prime more often than beef cattle. You might do well to raise them bull calves up and sell them to people to put on Angus cows or any beef breed as for as that goes. I don't know that they would help my old culls much, because they are pretty much hopeless with as much Brahman as they have in them.
Just a idea may be worth trying. ????

 

[dun]

Through the years we have started 2 herds with dairy bef cross heifers. We used Lincoln Red, Gert and Angus bulls (AI) and the calves didn;t get docked. The cows never performed well on range condtions and not much better on pasture unless supplemented.

 

[farmerjan]

Bullit; where are you located? the biggest thing is are you going to have a dozen or so calves to sell at a time or are you going to have 50 that you can market them for their "special" qualities. What sells in your area?

I will try to keep this short but everyone knows I get into explanations. Here in Va black is king and black baldies are very good. Anything red, limis, our red polls, and including red angus, takes a hit. Char crosses that are smokey WITH A BLACK NOSE will do nearly as good. Shorthorn, straight herefords, straight char with the pink noses, speckled calves, will take a hit and GOD FORBID it has any ear on it......dum de dum dum.....
Dairy steers will run .80 to 1.00 a lb year in and year out. Dairy crosses will do maybe a little better but if it has the "fineness" of dairy, especially jersey, then it is considered dairy. Due to the large number of dairy farms, holstein steers have their niche and some former dairy farmers do well feeding out holstein steers. Still, they are dairy.

I have several dairy and dairy x cows. I like my dairy and milking cows, and have been involved with dairy most of my life. We also run a commercial beef farm and have mostly angus and crosses and have some herefords, some red cows, and char x and even a few speckled park. We sell a few sides of beef and always use our "odd" colored calves for beef.

Right now I have 4 dairy cows as nurse cows in the barn ; a jersey, an old guernsey, and 2 that are 3/4 jersey 1/4 holstein. the jersey has 2 good teats and has 2 calves, and an attitude problem that has determined this is her 2nd and last time as a nurse cow; the guernsey has 2 (and a third one partly on her) calves on her; one of the 3/4 jerseys has 3 good teats and has 3 calves on her. The other 3/4 jersey has 3 - 4 month old calves on her and she comes in because she is a first calf heifer and can use extra grain, and takes the 3rd calf from the guernsey and it nurses her also. I am weaning her 3 older calves and this cow will let anything nurse her; so she shares the one with the guernsey, and I caught 2 of my bottle babies also nursing her. So as soon as I move her 3 older calves I will let her feed whoever she wants. I also have 3 "bottle babies". And as I said, I have caught 2 of them stealing off the nurse cows while in the lot during the day.

You have to have a market for the calves; or understand that you will get less for the calves. But, I figure it this way; and this is just a general average on an average year. A good beef cow will produce one calf. At 500 lbs, that calf is worth say 1.50 lb. S750.00. Costs in the neighborhood of $450. to keep the cow. These are average figures..... So if you are lucky you make $300. over the cost of keeping the cow. Take out death losses, all other stuff, add another $100 in costs, so you make $200 per calf.
My nurse cow has a beef cross calf. Weaned at 400lbs at $1.00 lb that is $400.. She raises 2 additional calves. Same deal, weaned at 400 lbs @ $1.00 equals $400. each. She has produced $1200 worth of calves. I paid $50.00 each for the additional calves, so $100. She gets grain for the first 4 months so an additional $200 to feed her. So, it is costing 450 plus 200, plus 100 for 2 additional calves. If you figure the additional 100 for various extra costs that is $850. on the cow and she has produced $1200 worth of calves so I am making $350 per cow....
My thoughts are that 2 calves pay for expenses and the third calf is profit.
This is figuring on the average to low side of returns for the calves when weaned. Any pure jersey calves will sell as good as a holstein in the spring at 500 lbs or so for people who know jersey beef and want something to run for 6-8 months on their back few acres and put in the freezer. I get 1.00 lb for jersey steers right out of the pasture. More when I sold jersey beef delivered to the butcher. But then you are dealing with the "john q. public" and that can be a pain.

Any 1/2 dairy 1/2 beef heifers I raise up for cows. They will milk and raise a real nice calf. Bred beef the calf usually will look pretty beefy ( it is 3/4) but occasionally they will show more dairy. Some of the 1/2 dairy cows will have too much udder and I will put a second calf on them and grain them some for 6-8 weeks til the calves get going real good and so the cow won't lose too much condition. Then she goes on pasture with the rest of the beef herd and the 2 calves are hers. They will often wean at 4-500 lbs, and so will bring 800 to 1,000 for 2 calves at the 1.00 lb. Anything more is just gravy.
If you like fooling with dairy cows like I do, it is a way I can have my milk cows and not be stuck into a 2x a day milking or going full dairy and all the b.s. that is in the industry. I breed some AI so can get dairy calves out of my better cows and 1/2 beef out of the others. There are some that have lousy dispositions, some that once you get an extra calf or 2 on them they are their calves, and don't mess with them; and some that will let any and all that want a meal to suck.

I get my calves DIRECTLY off a dairy/dairies and I know they have had colostrum. Yes it helps that I am a milk tester and have sources. But, many dairies around here have someone that gets all their calves. Pay a set price, big, little, twins, the buyer takes them all. It averages out and the dairy farmer doesn't have to deal with making a trip to the market and all the hassle. Most dairies that you develop a relationship with will make sure that the calves get a feeding or 2 of colostrum, because you will spread it around if they sell sickly calves that always die.

There are other little tricks to the trade but this is long enough for now....

 

[farmerjan]

Yeah, kinda short for me :lol: :lol: :lol: