Cutting vs Banding

[Earl Thigpen]

Not new here but I do have a question or maybe I need to ask your opinion.

I read a lot here and see a great deal of talk about banding but not so much about the old fashion way - cuttin'. I know in the old days screw worms were a problem when fixin' bull calves but my old Grand Daddy and my Father as well were always of the opinion that cutting them was the only positive way of turning them into steers. And screw worms seem to be a thing of the past.

Are there any other reasons to band (besides the obvious open wound from cutting). Are there any down sides to banding.

 

[littleboss]

Reasons not to band. If the calf is large you have a chance of tetnus (unless you give a vaccine).
Also if you don't get both testicles, you still have a bull.
Having said that, I have been banding mine for 20 years (at birth). I have not had a problem

 

[preston39]

Check with the buyers of your production. In our area banded animals are discounted. Knife cutting is desired.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

We band...wouldn't even consider cutting. Quick & simple, no blood, no open wounds, give a tetanus shot after finished. Never had a problem. Usually don't band until 4-6 months old for the ones we want to steer...by that time, if you can't see 2, you're blind...lol.

 

[MikeC]

Check with the buyers of your production. In our area banded animals are discounted. Knife cutting is desired.

??? A buyer will check a calf to see if he was knife cut or banded?

It's not that easy to tell either.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Mine are not breeding stock. Everything becomes a steer. I band them right after birth and never have any problems. I do it myself and make sure I get them both. Then I put on the ear tag which usually gets them upset and momma too. That is why the tag is the last thing I do.

 

[Scotty]

If you cut at less than a week there will be very little blood. I used to band all the ones that were able to be banded. The only knife cuts are the bigg boys. Try to make a point IMO to do this at three months old or less. The older you let them get the more problems that can occur.

 

[somn]

Check with the buyers of your production. In our area banded animals are discounted. Knife cutting is desired.

??? A buyer will check a calf to see if he was knife cut or banded?

It's not that easy to tell either.

I will never again knowingly buy another banded steer. Normally they are announced when entering ring if knife cut or banded. It is under normal circumstances easy to tell if knife cut or banded by no visible sack. If I'm still unsure I won't bid they might be real nice calves but every single calf could also still be a bull. I've been done that road it isn't fun.

 

[MikeC]

Check with the buyers of your production. In our area banded animals are discounted. Knife cutting is desired.

??? A buyer will check a calf to see if he was knife cut or banded?

It's not that easy to tell either.

I will never again knowingly buy another banded steer. Normally they are announced when entering ring if knife cut or banded. It is under normal circumstances easy to tell if knife cut or banded by no visible sack. If I'm still unsure I won't bid they might be real nice calves but every single calf could also still be a bull. I've been done that road it isn't fun.

I have cut a lot of calves and banded a lot of calves. The banded ones have never been a problem.

In the commercial herd we'll band 'em when we tag 'em and they never check up......................

Never had a buyer ask me if they were cut or banded????????????

I guess some folks can screw up a soup sandwich. :lol:

 

[somn]

Mistakes happen I bought a load of nice black steers once who ended up being all bulls and it was something done on purpose by the rancher. That was just plain mean. I had no way to remedy the problem either we tried to cut a couple of them but when you cut directly into the abdomen like that we just asked for problems.

 

[flaboy?]

Interesting, I don't do either. I ship them as bulls and they are not discounted. They run through as steers. I will band for something I am keeping to butcher or sell to a show person but other than that they get run through as bulls.

I used to band only but after sitting through several auctions where the auctioneer says "ok here we have nice group of steers". Watched those come in before and after and mine bring just as much if not more. I ship mine at 5-6 months.

 

[Earl Thigpen]

OK, thanks for all the information. I appreciate it. I think I'll continue to knife cut. Like I say, I've not had a problem with the wound heeling or with flys or infection (they all get vacinated). I just thought there might be a real compelling(sp) reason to band vs. knife cut. Thanks again.

ET

 

[*Cowgirl*]

Band as young as possible. Cut if his balls are too big for the band.

 

[ChrisB]

I finish all my calves and band them. But when I buy feeders from an unkown source I prefer knife cut or bulls. Counting up to 2 is apparently too hard for way too many people.

 

[Dusty Britches]

??? A buyer will check a calf to see if he was knife cut or banded?

It's not that easy to tell either.

It is a lot easier than you think. Buyers can tell. When banded, there won't be any skin left, but with a knife there will be a small pouch of skin that is the same size as what was left when the knife cut the bottom part of the sack off.

We used to band and double up the cherrios, but it is faster, easier, and less stressful to use a knife when they are a day or 2 old. Banding in the heat may also lead to blood poisoning.

 

[Simmishowchick]

We do both. If the calf kicks, we band. If he stands still long enough, we will cut them.

 

[sidney411]

I have never banded anything. I cut them all. Easy. Quick. you don't have to wait for them to fall off. Blah Blah Blah. We cut them up to a couple months with no problems. We always spray them with a screwworm dressing.

I have sold directly to a buyer before that DID NOT want banded calves. His pre-vac program we followed specifically stated that they were to be cut. He did check the 1st load we took in!

 

[Conagher]

Interesting topic that I have been looking into recently.

Dusty's statement of "... and less stressful to use a knife .." is the same comment made by an assist. prof giving the lecture at a recent cow/calf clinic I attended. I wondered about this statement since we know stress affects weight gain so I did some follow-up. I found out from this assit. prof that " my training is in ruminant nutrition and not growth and physiology so I may have inadvertently overlooked something in regards to stress and cortisol." He sent along some reference material; a 2005 article by G. Bretschneider from Unv. of Nebraska. The abstract stated, "No statistical
differences ( P >0.05) were detected in stress response between surgical and rubber banding procedures. However, the fact that the lower stress response of intact cattle was not statistically different ( P >0.05) from banded cattle suggests that rubber banding castration is less stressful than surgical castration."

I think flaboy is on to something as well. The same article referenced above states that the "ADG of bulls increase up to 19% than that of steers". Though I have seen some studies suggesting bulls get docked; no where have I been able to find the % docked approach the weight gain difference. There are several articles and reseach studies on this subject addressing implants to increase steer weight, marbeling, quality, etc.

My conclusion from the information I could find was for a producer that sold weaning calves there is no payback in castrating your calves when you consider the labor, risk of loss, medication, etc. PB breeders on the other hand have a different incentive.

As always, your mileage may vary.

 

[Susie David]

Two in hand...release the band.
Don't give tetanus, skin not breached...never had a problem. larger calf, two bands. DMc

 

[BC]

Interesting topic that I have been looking into recently.


I think flaboy is on to something as well. The same article referenced above states that the "ADG of bulls increase up to 19% than that of steers". Though I have seen some studies suggesting bulls get docked; no where have I been able to find the % docked approach the weight gain difference. There are several articles and reseach studies on this subject addressing implants to increase steer weight, marbeling, quality, etc.

My conclusion from the information I could find was for a producer that sold weaning calves there is no payback in castrating your calves when you consider the labor, risk of loss, medication, etc. PB breeders on the other hand have a different incentive.

As always, your mileage may vary.

There are order buyers in Texas that have steer only orders. By leaving them as bulls you cut down on the number of potential bids that you can get. Research has shown that the earlier that you castrate, the better the chances to grade and be tender when finished. Anything we can do to improve the eating experience of the consumer needs to be done.