Cull This Cow!

[randiliana]

So, here's one for you guys.... We run about 150 mama cows here, and are pretty strict about what we keep around....usually....

Anyways, we have this pretty blue roan 3 year old that we raised. Last year (first calf) she had problems calving, and she was later so she had been at it a while when DH found her. He was able to pull the calf with his bare hands (108 lb baby) but his nose and front feet were pretty swollen. Took him a few days to really get going, but I don't think we had to tube him or anything. She is a pretty quiet cow, so wasn't a big deal to help them out. So, as it turned out the calf got pneumonia, and we treated and treated him, the meds would work for a while then you'd be back treating him again (can you say chronic...) so finally we quit and turned them out with the herd. Of course he did pretty well all summer til about a week or so before weaning and then we found him dead... She was bred back, so we gave her a second chance. This spring she calved all by herself, calf seemed to be quite healthy. Then when he was about a month old, we found him dead. Never noticed him sick or anything off with him. But we were having some issues with bloating calves (I presume ulcers) so even though we never noticed him having problems (and we didn't do a post mortem on him) I am guessing that is what happened...

So generally we have a 2 strikes rule around here, and she sort of jumped all over top of that with 2 lost calves in 2 years.....lol. But shortly after this calf died, we had an older cow calve and we noticed that her calf seemed to be starving to death. And because I really didn't feel like bottle feeding in May, we brought blue up and put her in with the calf (literally that is all we did cause we were busy and kinda forgot about them...) and by the next morning they were a pair. So, blue or #173 raised a calf this year, did a reasonable job, and I guess (since she is bred again) that she will get another chance around here.....

 

[Stocker Steve]

A few cows seem to have re occuring issues. I have a 7 year old that lost 2 young calves in the last 3 years. Found the second dead in time to post it. Vet could not find anything wrong with it so he guessed black leg. Really nice looking cow, but then she does support anyone... I think there is a genetic susceptibility to some conditions that we can not easily measure. She is gone.

I have 3 yr old who raised her calf and adopted an orphan, but then did not breed back. My math says she raised a calf per year so she stayed.

It's all in the figurin.

 

[Nesikep]

I had one that miscarried a pair of twins 3 years in a row, and kept her spot because there was always one that needed another momma, and she did a great job of raising them, so she stayed, but after the 3rd time I shipped her hoping I wouldn't need her services and headaches anymore.. and I haven't. We have had a few of them that were just perpetual problems, even though it would just seem like bad luck, they'd get it all, uterine torsions, backwards legs while calving, you name it.

If I was short of feed, yes, I'd get rid of her now, if you aren't at capacity, well, perhaps another kick at the can won't hurt. I have a few that never did nor will raise a respectable calf, but since I have the food for them, I'll keep them.. one is now going on 8 years old! I think I'm going to do a major cleanup next fall.. I'll fill up a trailer at least and make the trip worthwhile.

 

[Putangitangi]

Cows which score high on the "helpfulness" index often buy credit here too. But not forever, if the black mark comes up the next time and has no opportunity to be negated in the same way.

 

[randiliana]

She got lucky. There was also a 2 year old heifer who got a free ride. She lost hers, and if we'd have been able to get her in easily she would have been the adopter, not the roan cow.....

 

[bigbull338]

cull her 2 lost or bad calves is no good.

 

[jerry27150]

I would have culled her the first year, now & then you get a cow that will have a sick calf every year. something wrong with the immunity they pass on

 

[Taurus]

I would have culled her the first year, now & then you get a cow that will have a sick calf every year. something wrong with the immunity they pass on

If that was true, the foster calf wouldn't be thriving when she was grafted to the roan cow.

 

[randiliana]

I don't have a problem keeping her around the first time, after all the calf was VERY stressed at birth, it's not the first time I've seen a weak calf at birth get sick within the first few months. If we'd been watching closer it likely wouldn't have happened. And, she was on the schedule to go the second time around, she had just gotten a free ride for about 6 months... from Oct when she lost her calf til May when she lost the second one... But when you have a cow that literally walks into the corral and takes the calf you give her, its pretty hard to pass that up, especially when the other option may be bottle feeding the foster calf all summer...
Can I really blame her for the second calf she lost? She wasn't the only cow to lose a calf this spring, I think it was to ulcers, the calves were bloating and no treatments we tried worked to save them. Some looked to get better and then would relapse a few days later and you would find them dead. They were all around 3 -5 weeks old. Next spring we will be giving all the newborns a shot of blackleg vaccine.

Regardless, she is bred back and we will give her another shot. She did raise a calf for us this year, which is more than I can say for the calf's real mama, so it is not a total loss. And with the price that bred cattle are likely to be and the old cows we are going to try to replace I think it is worth it to give her another try. If we'd had to fight for days or weeks with her it would likely be a different story.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Sure not always the cows fault when a calf is lost, so I can't see culling them for it.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Calf was too big. Cull the cow if you want but you need to do something about the calf size. Can't have that happening

 

[jerry27150]

Taurus, if you graft a calf on, that calf will not have this cows natural immunity system. if the cow had just freshened with colostrom he would have some immunity for a time, but if he inherited her weak immune system he would have good chance of tipping over later in life as I have seen many times. ever wonder why some calves never get sick when most others die

 

[randiliana]

OK, sometimes you just get a big calf. That's not generally something we cull on, unless it is a recurring issue. She calved by herself the second time around.

As far as the immunity thing, there could be something there, or not. For her first calf, well heifers generally have poorer colostrum. Add in a stressed calf and it's not surprising he got sick. Unfortunately he didn't respond to treatment and he died. Now the second one died for reasons unknown. We D's I'd not notice him sick, in fact I would almost go so far as to say he wasn't. We had worked them the day before we found him dead and did not notice anything we other him. For all I know he could have had heart problems, or even have been stepped on.

Now I'm not saying that this cow should not be culled, or that she won't be. But at the moment, she is raising a Foster calf, that she accepted with no fuss. And she bred back.

 

[Taurus]

Taurus, if you graft a calf on, that calf will not have this cows natural immunity system. if the cow had just freshened with colostrom he would have some immunity for a time, but if he inherited her weak immune system he would have good chance of tipping over later in life as I have seen many times. ever wonder why some calves never get sick when most others die

Didn't you think that calf will get weak immunity from being out of an old cow who is starving her calf?

 

[kworth1980]

Not 100% sure its all her fault, defiantly something to consider though. I mean 108lb calf for her first calf - holy cow (no pun intended). Curious - what was she bred to her first year calving. Second calf - could be her or human its so hard to know - am I wrong thinking that if he made it a month, may not be her or you would think it would have died the first couple weeks? What kind of vaccines do you give?

Then at the same time, good cow in my opinion if she takes another calf that easy!

 

[cloud9cattle]

Welp!!!! She GONE!!!

 

[randiliana]

Not 100% sure its all her fault, defiantly something to consider though. I mean 108lb calf for her first calf - holy cow (no pun intended). Curious - what was she bred to her first year calving. Second calf - could be her or human its so hard to know - am I wrong thinking that if he made it a month, may not be her or you would think it would have died the first couple weeks? What kind of vaccines do you give?

Then at the same time, good cow in my opinion if she takes another calf that easy!

The calf's sire was a Simm x Angus bull that we'd used for several years, that would have been one of the largest calves out of him, ever. Most of his calves were in the 80-90 lb range. I kinda agree with you that being a month old and never having had noticeable issues that it probably wasn't an immunity thing... Vaccines that we give are Express 3 which is a MLV that covers BVD, IBR, PI3. And all the cows have been getting a Clostridial 8-way for the last 3 or 4 years as well. Given in the spring before the bulls go out (branding time)

 

[randiliana]

Not 100% sure its all her fault, defiantly something to consider though. I mean 108lb calf for her first calf - holy cow (no pun intended). Curious - what was she bred to her first year calving. Second calf - could be her or human its so hard to know - am I wrong thinking that if he made it a month, may not be her or you would think it would have died the first couple weeks? What kind of vaccines do you give?

Then at the same time, good cow in my opinion if she takes another calf that easy!

The calf's sire was a Simm x Angus bull that we'd used for several years, that would have been one of the largest calves out of him, ever. Most of his calves were in the 80-90 lb range. I kinda agree with you that being a month old and never having had noticeable issues that it probably wasn't an immunity thing... Vaccines that we give are Express 3 which is a MLV that covers BVD, IBR, PI3. And all the cows have been getting a Clostridial 8-way for the last 3 or 4 years as well. Given in the spring before the bulls go out (branding time)

 

[bird dog]

Maybe one of your bulls is the problem. Very large calves, calves with no vaccinations, bloat issues. It sounds like to me you have some management issues that need to be addressed or modified.

 

[Taurus]

Maybe one of your bulls is the problem. Very large calves, calves with no vaccinations, bloat issues. It sounds like to me you have some management issues that need to be addressed.

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