Crossbreeding Breed advice

[Red Bull Breeder]

That's how you get trimmed out of business.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

ricebelt-in one of the publications that I read from the American Shorthorn Association, there was an article about a shorthorn breeder who raises all of his own calves up to finish, and in one trailer of heifers and steers that he sent to the processor, he had 2 heifers that were Prime YG1's. It is possible, it just takes careful breeding selection and some good luck. This wasn't by any definition a large operation, it was just a small family farm.
I am starting to lean towards Angus, but I would really like to take advantage of hybrid vigor/Heterosis. Any thoughts on shorthorn X angus calves? Obviously I would start with shorthorn mothers, because there are very few good shorthorn bulls that are safe for use in a small angus female, but a good shorthorn shouldn't have any issues with even the scariest of the angus bulls. Shorthorn cows also tend to be more docile and more maternal IMO.
Any thoughts on shorthorns vs. gelbviehs for crossing with a terminal angus bull?

Thank you to everyone for the input so far!

The Murray Greys originated in Australia over 100 years ago from a shorthorn cow who was bred to various Aberdeen Angus bulls. You can't reduplicate that cross and get Murray Greys, but I think the Shorthorn X Angus cross would work pretty well.

 

[Taurus]

The original cow in Murray Grey, may not be a white shorthorn at all or at least not a pure shorthorn. Its likely a dun Galloway. Never saw any smokey calves out of a shorthorn cow and a black Angus bull.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Some of us would question if you have ever seen a cow.

 

[Taurus]

Some of us would question if you have ever seen a cow.

And what is your problem?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

People who don't no shitt from shine giving advice.

 

[Till-Hill]

Durham red cows, Shorthorn x Red Angus or Black if you want them black and put a Charolais bull on them. Our Shorthorn x Angus heifers are really looking the part to become great cows.

 

[Cross breeder #1]

I would say get your base of whatever breed of English cattle choose or even a mix of them to experiment with, cross them with a Gelbvieh bull that makes good heifers like atlas, then breed the f1s to a Sim angus bull with super high marbling and growth

 

[Stocker Steve]

Shorthorn cows also tend to be more docile and more maternal IMO. Any thoughts on shorthorns vs. gelbviehs for crossing with a terminal angus bull? /quote]

After a couple rounds of hard cull'in I have one SH cow named Ho left, and I retain her heifer calves.
SH around here tend to have more teat, udder, or color issues.
Most of the SH cows were bred Balancer when I bought them. Really nice hiefers You will usually get more muscle and a more marketable color with a GV cross.

 

[Aaron]

Shorthorn cows also tend to be more docile and more maternal IMO. Any thoughts on shorthorns vs. gelbviehs for crossing with a terminal angus bull? /quote]

After a couple rounds of hard cull'in I have one SH cow named Ho left, and I retain her heifer calves.
SH around here tend to have more teat, udder, or color issues.
Most of the SH cows were bred Balancer when I bought them. Really nice hiefers You will usually get more muscle and a more marketable color with a GV cross.

Really odd as Shorthorns were always best known for their teat/udder/milk quality.

 

[thommoos]

Shorthorn cows also tend to be more docile and more maternal IMO. Any thoughts on shorthorns vs. gelbviehs for crossing with a terminal angus bull? /quote]

After a couple rounds of hard cull'in I have one SH cow named Ho left, and I retain her heifer calves.
SH around here tend to have more teat, udder, or color issues.
Most of the SH cows were bred Balancer when I bought them. Really nice hiefers You will usually get more muscle and a more marketable color with a GV cross.

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[Stocker Steve]

Really odd as Shorthorns were always best known for their teat/udder/milk quality.

Not locally. Big bottle tits are common.
Serious breeders here are mostly Angus or Simi, with Limi being a distant third.
Some of the Angus breeders added Simi or Simi x Angus to their offerings, and the biggest Limi breeder (Wulf) added Angus and Lim flex.
The good thing about Augus bulls is you seldom need to buy one, since the neighbor's will be in your pasture a couple weeks after he is turned out. :nod:

 

[Aaron]

Really odd as Shorthorns were always best known for their teat/udder/milk quality.

Not locally. Big bottle tits are common.
Serious breeders here are mostly Angus or Simi, with Limi being a distant third.
Some of the Angus breeders added Simi or Simi x Angus to their offerings, and the biggest Limi breeder (Wulf) added Angus and Lim flex.
The good thing about Augus bulls is you seldom need to buy one, since the neighbor's will be in your pasture a couple weeks after he is turned out. :nod:

Must be some poor-quality Shorties. Wow. Only thing stopping me from adding a purebred line of them is the price discrimination on the roans. I am surprised somedays at just how much demand there is locally for Shorthorn bulls for heifers. And a HerfxShortie cow is hard to beat.

 

[Beef Man]

As a kid growing up here in east Mt.it was very comman to see a lot of roan cows scattered in a lot of cowherds. They were a product of the family milk herd crossed with the beef bull at that ttime was a hereford and were usually considered as one of the best produceing cow's on the place. A lot of the old milk cows were considered to be Duram's I guess It was many years before I realized that a lot of those good old family cows were really Shorthorn. My grandmother milked 8-10 until she was 75 and they were from solid white to solid red's and never fed grain all summer and they produced very well.Oh what a difference a few decades of years makes. I think if the truth be known the hereford/shorthorn cross's were the backbone of the industry as it began and grew, maybe made it possible for our folks to live and prosper enough so we can be where we are today!!

 

[Aaron]

The Hereford/Shorthorn cross was the backbone of the Canadian industry until the late 70's.

 

[shortybreeder]

Really odd as Shorthorns were always best known for their teat/udder/milk quality.

Not locally. Big bottle tits are common.
Serious breeders here are mostly Angus or Simi, with Limi being a distant third.
Some of the Angus breeders added Simi or Simi x Angus to their offerings, and the biggest Limi breeder (Wulf) added Angus and Lim flex.
The good thing about Augus bulls is you seldom need to buy one, since the neighbor's will be in your pasture a couple weeks after he is turned out. :nod:

Must be some poor-quality Shorties. Wow. Only thing stopping me from adding a purebred line of them is the price discrimination on the roans. I am surprised somedays at just how much demand there is locally for Shorthorn bulls for heifers. And a HerfxShortie cow is hard to beat.

To avoid Roans all you need is red cows crossed with red bulls, and avoid the white bulls like the plague if you don't want to get a roan calf. Do you see the red and white ones getting discounted too? (Spotted white, rather than the roan pattern of white hairs growing amongst the red ones) Because I have one roan cow and one R/W cow, and when bred to the same bull they are consistently throwing the same pattern calves as themselves. If you have some Hereford's, my recommendation would be to A.I. a couple to a good red bull. My current favorite (for price:quality ratio) would have to be Homedale Creole 135. I love my calves, and I know Frank loves his too. Can also cross a red shorthorn, or a R/W shorthorn with a black bull and you'll get a solid black calf. Or if you do end up with a roan cow, I would A.I. her to a really good maternally oriented black bull (sim or angus) and hope for a heifer calf. There is only a 50% chance that the offspring will be roan, and 50% chance it will be black. I think a good blue roan cow is hard to beat for eye appeal in the pasture, and will always raise one heck of a calf when crossed with a strong black terminal bull.

 

[Beef Man]

The Hereford/Shorthorn cross was the backbone of the Canadian industry until the late 70's.

Just looking through a A.I. catalog am wondering what has really happened to the shorthorn beef breed?? Seems as if they are putting a lot of importance on the show type cattle all most like some of the steer jockey bulls.Heard once that they had some co-mingling with Maine Anjou. True or False?? We are satisfied with our Hereford/Red angus but I have wondered if a shot of good kind of Red shorthorn would'nt be interesting. Just curious. r

 

[shortybreeder]

The Hereford/Shorthorn cross was the backbone of the Canadian industry until the late 70's.

Just looking through a A.I. catalog am wondering what has really happened to the shorthorn beef breed?? Seems as if they are putting a lot of importance on the show type cattle all most like some of the steer jockey bulls.Heard once that they had some co-mingling with Maine Anjou. True or False?? We are satisfied with our Hereford/Red angus but I have wondered if a shot of good kind of Red shorthorn would'nt be interesting. Just curious. r

With the ShorthornPlus breeding up program the shorthorn breed has had some co-mingling with a lot of breeds. Some people believe that the genetic defect PHA (I might be mixed up, could be TH) came into the Shorthorn breed through the breeding up of Maine-influenced cattle. The way to tell whether or not a bull is true 100% shorthorn, never bred up, is to look at his registration number. If there is an asterisk (*) in front of the x, then he was bred up. A good source of asterisk-free shorthorn bulls is the Saskvalley herd. Bonanza makes some great heifers, but he might be a roan carrier, I've never used him or looked into him much. Just heard good things about him from commercial guys. I would agree that a lot of Shorthorn bulls are show-ring oriented, but there are still plenty of great bulls for commercial breeders to use to make productive cattle. Jungel's bulls also make good commercial bulls, but if you like cattle with proper feet and leg structure, that are nice and long-strided, you should look somewhere else IMO.

 

[Aaron]

I've heard those same rumors. Seem like a lot of the breed got screwed up with the club calves/steer jockeys. I would stay in Canada for decent Shorthorn genetics. Maybe they are available in the US, but I think you would have to do some searching. There have been a few Canadian Shorthorn guys on here over the years with some terrific stock. When I think good Shorthorn cows, I remember old herds like this: [b]http://muridale.com/cows.html[/b]

 

[shortybreeder]

The Eionmor herd was also a great source for strong maternal genetics, one of my best females is a grand-daughter of Eionmor Mr Gus 80C. Unfortunately they just had a major dispersal this year... I just wish I had a trailer that I could have taken up there to get a nice heifer from their sale.