Cows to Cycle

[milkmaid]

From my viewpoint and IMHO, regardless of the reasons for doing so, I would not even consider deliberately pulling a calf/calves for 24 hours, much less 48 hours. My logic is this:

1) Cows are milking at their heaviest 30-90 days into the lactation, and you risk a severe case of mastitis in the heavy milking cows (been there, done that-with 24 hours or less of not being milked), or even accidently drying off the mediocre milkers.

2) The shock to a 8-12 week old calf would not be worth it -in my book- to justify the reasons behind a temporary weaning like that. Not to even speak of the stress on both cow and calf by being separated, and then the shock to the calf's partially-weaned digestive system when he gets glutted with milk again.

A heavy milking cow sometimes just isn't going to cycle soon enough or breed back quick enough to give you a 12 month calving interval. That's all there is to say.

Where most cow/calf producers leave the cows and calves together 24/7 until weaning, and dairy herds are milked 2-3 times a day every day, I can't see as the level of oxytocin produced by the cow for milk letdown is going to significantly affect her ability to breed back. If it did...sounds like cull material to me.

That's my 2 cents worth on the subject.

 

[Jeremy14]

This may make me sound ignorant, but here I go anyway....

Her cycle will start during that 24-48 hour period, but when would you let a bull loose or AI her?

I would guess pretty soon after that right?

 

[pappy1]

wonder what the folks that run several hundred head do!
do they round up, pull calves I doubt it bunches
i question the wisdom in doing it.
have not seen a good argument for doing it!
do not recall dong it when i was a kid

 

[msscamp]

Milkmaid, I am on your side. It just doesn't seem worth the aggravation or the potential problems. We've never done this and never had a problem with cows calving when they are supposed to.

 

[Beef11]

i haven't ever done it and i had the same skeptisisms and was told that it works like a charm with no adverse affect noticed. There is a guy in Aberdeen (milkmaid will know where that is) that did it with 800 cows and said it worked well.

 

[milkmaid]

Yep I know where that is. However, I still wouldn't do it or recommend it. There's two cases I can think of off the top of my head that make me extremely wary of anything that involves more than 12 hours between milkings.

The first was one of the top cows at my boss's dairy that missed being milked one morning. The circumstances are irrelevant; only that it was 24 hours before she was milked, and she came down with a severe case of mastitis almost immediately. Turned into a chronic case that nearly took the quarter out of production completely.

Second case was on one of my nurse cows. I do things different than most folks, and leave the cow and calves together 24/7. This particular cow I wanted to take to a show, pulled the calves at 9PM, cow didn't return home until 1PM the next afternoon after the show. 16 hours, I believe. She came down with an extremely severe case of mastitis that I battled for a solid week before conquering.

Those two alone make me wary of letting a cow go more than 12 hours - especially one who is used to being milked every few hours by a calf - and I can come up with more stories along these same lines.

Like I mentioned in my first post, I think I understand the reasoning behind pulling the calves, and I think I understand why it would work, but when I sit down and think about it all, it just isn't worth it in my book.

 

[Beef11]

Would it make a difference on a beef cow as opposed to a dairy cow? The milk difference is huge probably a 1/4 the volume. Where is the dairy you work for milkmaid?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Well i deleted my original post i know yall have talked to people who give you too much information for your brain to absorb but i caught the high spots of it. he said that the cow constantly flows estrogen when milking and when you stop the flow of it by pulling the calf she will usually start cycling within about 48 hours.so pulling the calf for 24 makes sence.

 

[TB lady]

MilkMaid just wondering I also worked on a dairy farm, when the cows calf, do you leave their calves with them or do you seperate them, here about 1/2 days after calving the calf is pulled from it's momma forever, they are put in to their own pens and are fed either milk from a cow with mastitis or just reg.milk, what ever we have at the time. If the cows are not cycling then we injected them with hormones to bring them in to heat. Interesting how other people do it.

 

[RebelCritter]

I have heard that works with other animals as well. Cows, goats, probably others.

 

[milkmaid]

I wouldn't think it would make any difference whether it was a beef or dairy cow when you're making them go that long without being milked. There's a lot of stress on that udder when they're that full and there's no relief (calf).

TB Lady- Where I work, calves are left with the cows until they're cleaned up and dried off. Sometimes longer, say 12 hours, if cow and calf are doing well and it's not close to one of the milking shifts. After that they are separated permanently. Calves are bottle fed two feedings of colostrum (holsteins just aren't usually intelligent or motivated enough to get up and look for a teat) and then put on regular milk from the milk tank for feedings after that. And calves are kept in separate pens until they're 2 months old or so and/or weaned.

 

[TB lady]

Ya that is what we do here too. :santa:

 

[milkmaid]

Ya that is what we do here too. :santa:

That "past" or "present" tense?

 

[TB lady]

That "past" or "present" tense?[/quote]

Sorry, I'm thinking about the past in the present and then I start writing things that don't make anysence, does any of this make sence? :lol: To top it off I'm a real bad typer.

 

[milkmaid]

:lol: It makes sense. ;-) I was just curious if you were currently working on a dairy or whether that was something you'd done in the past. Quite a few folks on the forum who've dairied before.

 

[TB lady]

:lol: It makes sense. ;-) I was just curious if you were currently working on a dairy or whether that was something you'd done in the past. Quite a few folks on the forum who've dairied before.

Ya that was in the past, I really miss it though, I went on my daughters field trip to a dairy and just the smell brought me back. I don't know what is is that is all that great about cows and dairies, but I just love being in them. I think I would definatly like doing that more than what I'm doing now, right now I'm wrapping the poor things (meat wrapper) I'm ok as long as I did'nt know the cow,pig,chicken,etc...

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

There have been MANY articles on this subject for probably the past 5 years. They say to pull calves 24-48 hours and it will make the cows cycle. They never bother to explain how you keep a 30-70 day old calf healthy. First, you are taking it's food source away, security source; than - you put them together - and like milkmaid said - they glut themselves. You can't tell me that calf won't get sick. Well, maybe everyone else's would be OK - but, I KNOW mine would get sick!
Plus, just imagine what her bag is going thru :shock:
I am rather progressive on our farm - but that was one "tool" I have NEVER cared to try. Besides, I do not have any trouble keeping my cows on a 12 month cycle (or less on some). Most cycle between 30-45 days. I may not breed them on that cycle, but my later calvers I do. I beleive 2nd cycle is the most fertile, but some are on their 3rd cycle by breeding time (keeping a 60-day calving season).

 

[ALACOWMAN]

There have been MANY articles on this subject for probably the past 5 years. They say to pull calves 24-48 hours and it will make the cows cycle. They never bother to explain how you keep a 30-70 day old calf healthy. First, you are taking it's food source away, security source; than - you put them together - and like milkmaid said - they glut themselves. You can't tell me that calf won't get sick. Well, maybe everyone else's would be OK - but, I KNOW mine would get sick!
Plus, just imagine what her bag is going thru :shock:
I am rather progressive on our farm - but that was one "tool" I have NEVER cared to try. Besides, I do not have any trouble keeping my cows on a 12 month cycle (or less on some). Most cycle between 30-45 days. I may not breed them on that cycle, but my later calvers I do. I beleive 2nd cycle is the most fertile, but some are on their 3rd cycle by breeding time (keeping a 60-day calving season).

have too agree with you there cant see trying it too many potential problems to deal with for the few days of differance you would have in calving

 

[TB lady]

I have to agree with everyone to, being a mom myself Iknow what those poor cows would be going through, the engorgment would be very painful for the cow. I think MilkMaid also talked about mastitis occuring from that and that to is extermly painful, any mother can vouch for that if they have ever nursed and had that happen, I personaly haven't had that happen but my girlfriend did and she was in a lot of pain, so much that she had to get drugs for the pain, so if anybody decides to do that to a cow, then just remember what kind of pain she will go through. It's not fun.

 

[TR]

I've been holding all of my odd calving cows over to breed this January to all calve at the same time next fall. When I pulled their calves off them for weaning, all were in heat within 48 hrs. It was a regular bovine porno show out here. :lol:

So, I had heard before that pulling a calf for 24 hrs will bring them in, and from observing what happened out here during weaning, I was thinking of pulling the one calf left (4 1/2 mos) off his mama for 24 hrs when his mama went up to be AI'd. Seems that would be more natural than having to chemically bring her in. My question is, since the other calves were weaned at ~6 mos, would I need to worry about mastitis with their mamas as I would if I pulled a calf off at say, 4 1/2 mos for 24 hrs? Or is the big worry about mastitis during the most heavy phase of milking at 60-90 days? Or is this mostly a big concern with the heavy milking ability of dairy cows during their heavy milking phase? Seems that something here isn't making sense....I mean, you gotta pull calves off their mamas some time, and I don't know of anyone who continues to milk their beef cows after the calf is weaned to avoid mastitis, and no one gives them anything to dry the mamas off (asked the vet about that one...), so is it the timing and age of the calves when you pull them off that brings concern about mastitis?

Sorry if its a dumb question. I'm just wondering if the difference in milking ability and production between a dairy cow and a beef cow and/or the age of a calf is what is worrysome about a cow getting mastitis when pulling it off for 24 hrs.