Cows to Cycle

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes, the AGE of the calf and the production of the cow is what would concern me. At the time a beef cow is normally due to be bred, would be her high peak production time. So depending on whether she is a good milker, great milker, or poor, would determine the risk.
My cows are heavy milkers, and it would definately be a major concern for me.

 

[milkmaid]

My question is, since the other calves were weaned at ~6 mos, would I need to worry about mastitis with their mamas as I would if I pulled a calf off at say, 4 1/2 mos for 24 hrs? Or is the big worry about mastitis during the most heavy phase of milking at 60-90 days? Or is this mostly a big concern with the heavy milking ability of dairy cows during their heavy milking phase? Seems that something here isn't making sense....I mean, you gotta pull calves off their mamas some time, and I don't know of anyone who continues to milk their beef cows after the calf is weaned to avoid mastitis, and no one gives them anything to dry the mamas off (asked the vet about that one...), so is it the timing and age of the calves when you pull them off that brings concern about mastitis?

Sorry if its a dumb question. I'm just wondering if the difference in milking ability and production between a dairy cow and a beef cow and/or the age of a calf is what is worrysome about a cow getting mastitis when pulling it off for 24 hrs.

It is the timing and age of the calves, and stage of lactation for the cows that concerns me. I have no problem pulling older calves...had one of my bigger calves (5 months) cross the fence into another pasture once when I had the calves on pasture, nurse cow penned and was letting them together ever 12 hours. I didn't feel like going to get him, decided he'd come back on his own...and he did. He might have actually missed two feedings, if I remember right. LOL. Didn't hurt him.

Beef cows do tend to dry themselves off as the calves get close to weaning. My boss has the occasional angus/holstein cross cow in his milking herd (2 right now) that resulted from when the neighbor's bull crossed the fence. Those cows usually get culled for production pretty quickly...milk really heavy in the beginning, but by 6 months or so of being in milk, production is very low. Great for the beef folks, but on a dairy herd it doesn't work that well. LOL. If they breed back quickly - say a 10 month calving interval - it's not too big a deal and they can usually earn their keep for another lactation.

Now when my nurse cow showed up with mastitis in the example I listed above, she'd been in milk for 12 months already. She wasn't even milking that heavy; probably only 4-6 gallons a day (35-55lbs or so). I dried her off yesterday (16 months in milk) and she may not have been giving enough to feed one calf. She'll dry easily.

So to answer the question; yes, what worries me is 1) the age of the calf, and 2) the milk production and stage of lactation that the cow is at when you'd pull the calves. I can't see as it would make any difference when you're looking at that amount of time (24-48 hours) whether it's a beef or dairy cow. Under that amount of time any cow is...well, it's kind of a case of "milk produced" vs. "udder space and capacity". Call it an overload. Later in the lactating it's not a big deal, it's just right at the beginning when they're milking at their heaviest.

 

[TR]

Okay, so this cow would be bred at 135 days or so post calving. She is a 1000lb Simmi who weighs 1110lbs (very easy keeper) and is a heavy milker compared to the herfs, but not as heavy as a dairy cow. It took her 5 breedings natural service last year to take as a heifer. I observed her being bred in July, but calf didn't get here until 08/18, so she either took and reabsorbed, or didn't take until November. So with AI'ing her this year, I'm just wondering which would be the best way to go. Lute her, or pull her calf for 24 hrs for a more natural heat. Worth it to chance it? What are your thoughts? Her calf is eating hay and feed at the bunk, so he's not nursing as much as he was.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Okay, so this cow would be bred at 135 days or so post calving. She is a 1000lb Simmi who weighs 1110lbs (very easy keeper) and is a heavy milker compared to the herfs, but not as heavy as a dairy cow. It took her 5 breedings natural service last year to take as a heifer. I observed her being bred in July, but calf didn't get here until 08/18, so she either took and reabsorbed, or didn't take until November. So with AI'ing her this year, I'm just wondering which would be the best way to go. Lute her, or pull her calf for 24 hrs for a more natural heat. Worth it to chance it? What are your thoughts? Her calf is eating hay and feed at the bunk, so he's not nursing as much as he was.

So your calf is 4 1/2 months old, eating grain & hay. Shouldn't be a problem pulling it for 48 hours as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TR]

Yeh Jeanne, he's eating real good. If I had to wean him now, I wouldn't really worry about him. He pushes his way up to the feed bunk each night between the mama cows and 15 month old heifers to get his share, and he's a real chunker. Its his mama I get a bit overly concerned about. She's my favorite, and she took so long to take last year as a heifer, I'm kinda concerned that she won't settle AI this year. So l figured maybe a natural heat would be better than an induced one. Guess a heat cycle is a heat cycle no matter what, huh? I just don't wanna have a reason to have to cull her, and being a hard breeder would be that reason.... Thanks for the insight!

 

[dun]

It took her 5 breedings natural service last year to take as a heifer.

Unacceptable, ship her

dun

 

[JHH]

I have never pulled calves off cows to rebreed them but I am kind of new to this. Most farmers around here have feb calves so they put the bull in on may 1st that gives you a feb 6-7 calf. So then the calves that they had in feb and march (60 day season) are 2 to 3 months old. cows should rebred in that time frame, if they dont these guys get rid of them. I dont generally do this but these guys around here do. If they dont breed in 60 days they hit the road and if they keep getting later instead of earlier they hit the road. Not one of them pulles calves off for 24 hrs. And most of these guys have just the cows and row crop for their living.They make their cows work for them, they dont work for the cows. JHH

 

[TR]

I hear ya Dun. Any other cow on this place that did that would be gone, but as I said, she's my favorite, and I figure if you can give Granny an extra chance, then Bubbles can have one too. **wink**

In all reality, I took 3 heifers out to the bull in a different county at the beginning of July the year before last, and only one of them settled that month and calved at the end of April (2 breedings?). The other one settled 2 months later and calved beginning of June (2-3 breedings?), and Bubbles 4 months later calving in mid August (4-5 breedings?). They went from a coastal pasture with suppliment out to a non-fertilized bahaia pasture with cubes once a week. So, I have to wonder if it wasn't management that did that and not nature. That (and the fact she's my favorite) are the two big reasons she's getting a second chance.

 

[milkmaid]

Okay, so this cow would be bred at 135 days or so post calving. She is a 1000lb Simmi who weighs 1110lbs (very easy keeper) and is a heavy milker compared to the herfs, but not as heavy as a dairy cow. It took her 5 breedings natural service last year to take as a heifer.

She's my favorite, and she took so long to take last year as a heifer, I'm kinda concerned that she won't settle AI this year. So l figured maybe a natural heat would be better than an induced one. Guess a heat cycle is a heat cycle no matter what, huh?

Is she not cycling at all? at 135 days past calving - if she hasn't started cycling yet there's something wrong. If she IS cycling, then why not keep track of the dates, and breed her on a naturally occuring, stress free heat?

 

[TR]

She was cycling last year when I took her out to be bred, and I actually watched the bull breed her July 17th. She should have calved from that breeding in April, but didn't calve until August, so I figured she either took and re-absorbed the fetus, (something I've heard heifers sometimes do) or didn't settle until November (bad news).

Last night, she was bawling at nothing (her calf was right beside her), so I figured she was coming in. I haven't noticed any of the others riding her, and there are two out here right now in standing heat being ridden. In all honesty, I've been out of the country for 3 weeks, but I don't think she had been cycling before then. She had a really big calf though, and it was her first so I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. If she doesn't settle AI, then I'll run her with my herf bull and see how she does with him. I just wanted a different bull for her as her calf is a pretty good 'un by a dink of a bull, so I can only imagine what she would do with a good bull on her.....IF she breeds....I'm holding my breath on this one....

 

[sidney411]

Bubbles may be too big for BabyBoy ;-)

 

[la4angus]

Bubbles may be too big for BabyBoy ;-)

That's what I was kinda thinking, sidney.

 

[TR]

Bubbles may be too big for BabyBoy ;-)

That's what I was kinda thinking, sidney.

She isn't very tall, yall......maybe as tall as that blk/wf heifer he's running with? Maybe not even that tall.......guess I'd better go take a look at the little dude and see if he's gotten any taller since I last saw him. Man, we got serious bull issues if he can't reach her, 'cause that means he won't be able to reach the others he needs to get to either.

 

[Dee]

Could TR's breeding problem be due to heat? I try to keep the cattle that I will AI in a lot with plenty of shade. My tech said heat stress will lessen the breeding rates. I would assume your Texas cattle are used to heat?

 

[Beefy]

Anytime you pick out a favorite that automatically curses the cow.

 

[TR]

Could TR's breeding problem be due to heat? I try to keep the cattle that I will AI in a lot with plenty of shade. My tech said heat stress will lessen the breeding rates. I would assume your Texas cattle are used to heat?

Yeh, there's "used to the heat", then there's "just too dern hot for man or beast" here! I'm not entirely convinced that the issue isn't management related. Its another reason I've held her and the others over to be bred when its cooler, and am not moving them to a different pasture with different grasses, fertilizing rates, and different feed schedule this time either. Whith only 1 out of 3 bred and settled on time, and all were cycling, and all factors about their management were changed, I figured it might be something I should take a second look at.

 

[Victoria]

Anytime you pick out a favorite that automatically curses the cow.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Very True! It's always the least favourite ones that have no problems!