Cow to hog, ease & $

[DJ4wd]

After many pages of reading, and searches on this awesome site, I'm forced to ask this newbie question and hopefully it's not making you sigh.

I have 3/4 acre field, and I do not call it a pasture cause it currently has 5 ft weeds, which I can bushhog. Connected to it is 2 acres of semi thick but nicely shaded woods with a smallish stream running off the hillside, but also a constant flowing creek. I own both sides so they will always have water. I have lots of farmer friends who will help with anything I need, but they all have different opinions of course.

Here's my thinking: with 2 kids in 4h, and a desire to be less dependent on the stores, we have been considering our best options. With a budget to stay within, and the knowledge that I tend to jump in with both feet and then say "Oh man, I didn't see that coming," we want to be a little smarter this go round.

Here goes: we were thinking that with bottle milk cows that we can grab one around the correct time for $75 to 125, then also get a beef or mixed beef bottle calf as well. Ideally our youngest son would show, and sell the dairy , and use that money to finish out the beef.

vs the hogs
With the same field to work with we're considering hogs: cheaper to pen in, house, and cheaper to finish out. We would just buy 3 or so, and same scenario except both kids would show a hog.
My concerns/questions are these
#1. What would you say my effort, feed and return would be between the two?

#2 Would the hogs be that much easier to "learn' on ?

#3 Would it be too much to jump into both at the same time?

We have successfully raised, shown, butchered Chickens, and goats so this is not a citified boy who just moved out here yesterday. Someone we go to church with is a butcher and is willing to donate his services, just to help us out. :tiphat:

 

[DJ4wd]

Any help?

 

[aprille218]

Go with the pigs to start with. It'll most likely be a better fit for the amount of pasture you have and then both kids get to participate.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Pigs.

 

[DJ4wd]

Thanks for the replies. Would the feed cost be that much higher?

 

[salebarn junkie]

I have never run the numbers but I think the pig would be cheaper and you can have a finished product faster. Try to find produce that starting to go bad to save on grain last year after Halloween we got enough pumpkins to feed our 3 pigs for over 2 months. The chances of one dying is a lot less than with calves.

 

[TexasBred]

Good pig feed will be expensive as it's mostly soybean meal and corn. Show pig feed is extremely high most of the better feeds running close to $25-30 a bag. If you have a limited budget I'd concentrate on raising something to eat and forget the showing for now or start of with rabbits or chickens.

 

[cow pollinater]

Don't plan on the kids showing drop dairy calves. That $75-125 is getting you a bull calf or a freemartin heifer and they have no dairy value. They CAN be a really fun way to get kids started with cattle though. Just make sure they get clostrum milk before you bring them home.
Pigs can be a real handful. A pig that doesn't get started right is a whole lot worse than a bottle baby steer and they are a lot harder on fences. Plus they require sack feed even when your grass is green.
What about sheep? They're easy to handle, you've got enough ground to run enough of them that if you lose one it's not game over, and they'd be easiest for your youngest to show. They're also a whole lot cheaper to finish.

 

[djinwa]

I had pigs once for 2 weeks before I got rid of them - nasty and destructive creatures.

I'll second the sheep idea. I recently got 4 young males that were born in April and can be butchered in the fall when pasture is done.

They are a breed of hair sheep, not wool. Without wool, they keep cooler in summer, and I'm told they taste better than wool sheep.

Apparently the hair sheep breeds are becoming popular, as they don't require shearing, and wool isn't worth much anyway.

Search craigslist for breeds: Katahdin, or St. Croix, or type in hair sheep.

Here were some Katahdins I had last winter:

 

[DJ4wd]

Good pig feed will be expensive as it's mostly soybean meal and corn. Show pig feed is extremely high most of the better feeds running close to $25-30 a bag. If you have a limited budget I'd concentrate on raising something to eat and forget the showing for now or start of with rabbits or chickens.

We've been showing smaller animals for years, and we want this to be a dual purpose adventure, 4h and eating the other. Looks like the hogs will be the way to go from your suggestions. I just think that we would like having the cows better, but its best to work my way up first.

 

[Anonymous]

Build a pig pen, and do a beef cow. Thanwaynyou can play with both and see which one suits your needs better. I can't think of any reason to not do both.

 

[TexasBred]

We've been showing smaller animals for years, and we want this to be a dual purpose adventure, 4h and eating the other. Looks like the hogs will be the way to go from your suggestions. I just think that we would like having the cows better, but its best to work my way up first.

Show pig seldom make good freezer meat . They have almost no fat on them and are tasteless and meat pigs seldom make good show pigs. Gonna be expensive meat.

 

[VCC]

TesasBred, a few years ago that might have been true, now if the pigs do not have fat they do not win, over the last few years the hog shows have made a big push towards softer made hogs, no more pit-bull looking hogs.
Hogs are easier, but I would not let them run free, all you need is 4 16 foot welded livestock panels, a licks-it and a covered over the pen (hogs sun burn). Hogs are finished at 5 to 6 months old and eat an average of 6 pounds a day, the show feed are designed to get the most out of them, I still like to bring the hogs we buy at the fair home and put them on a sow ration for 2 to 3 weeks to get a little more fat on them.
Purchasing a hog for show is where they stick it to you, a feeder hog can cost 200 or more when it is for the fair and an off season pig with the same breeding will cost you half or less. The overall cost on a hog is much less than a steer and the time from start to finish is a third of that with beef.
Do your homework and you should find some good hogs for a decent price, compare feeds and finds the best feed for the money and feed them limberly (FREE feed), thing is if you are going to show them you have to make a decision do you want to compete or make money, real hard to do both. That is the case with most animals.

 

[TexasBred]

VCC putting them on a sow diet for a while would certainly help but right out of the show ring they still pretty much look like body builders. Pigs down here cost as much as $700 each so it cost like rip just to get into the business especially since most folks buy 2 or 3 and then show the best. That an another $700 worth of feed....like I said...."expensive meat".

 

[VCC]

I think the average for county fair pigs is around $200 (I was told that they have some tough hog show in Texas) there are those that spend allot more. We raised a couple litters over the years and sold pig to the kids for fair, charged 150 each and had several class winners but never anything go further than that. Did have 3 pigs end up 1,2,3, in a class of 18. I did it to help the kids, by the time you pay for 3 doses of $75 semen and feed and medication you don't make much, if any. My boys had to help deliver, clip teeth, and castrate so the lessons were worth it. They each got to pick a pig out and raise it for the fair, the money they made from those pigs is what got them their first steers to show. (we always had buyers lined up for the hogs)
I think the feed plays a bigger part in the pigs muscled up appearance; raise them on commercial feed and they would not look the same.

 

[Anonymous]

Feeds like paylean and such don't and won't put fat on a pig. The shows around here are mainly to express desired muscling characteristics so they can sell breeding stock. Not for eating stock.

 

[TexasBred]

Feeds like paylean and such don't and won't put fat on a pig. The shows around here are mainly to express desired muscling characteristics so they can sell breeding stock. Not for eating stock.

True...There is a point in there when a pig needs some good old fashioned "slop". :lol2: Here's a link to Sunglo feeds which makes an awesome line of show pig feeds.


http://sunglofeeds.com/ads/sunglo_DRIVE ... nt_1-2.pdf

 

[VCC]

Steer projects are allot of work and take allot of time but can be fun.
Here is a picture of the kid and his steer that I helped, I sold him a calf last year and found him this calf this year. This was his 2nd raising a steer, the steer was the Grand Champion out of 65 head. No cooler, just lots of rinsing and brushing. Judge said was just an honest calf that had all the right parts, was the ideal weight 1301 (1370 full), and had a little bit of that look to go with it.

He did pay more than market for the calf but not much, put in the work and it paid off.

 

[1982vett]

The chances of one dying is a lot less than with calves.

I wouldn't take that to Vegas..... ;-)

 

[salebarn junkie]

The chances of one dying is a lot less than with calves.

I wouldn't take that to Vegas..... ;-)

A 2 or 3 day old calf or a weined pig. I will take the pig and give you odds all day long.