I suppose you raised him?
Court of Public Opinion - Beefmaster Bull Calf
- Thread starter East Caney
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East Caney
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Chuckie":1hih4cns said:
No Chuckie, a friend of mine produced him. This calf is the subject of multiple debates. One debate is whether or not he has too much leather to be given a chance as a bull. The other is about the quality of the calf with the exception of the sheath. That's why I'm seeking some honest opinions.
There's also another calf that I'll probably post to the thread for critique and comparison.
EC
When I first look at him, he is a really balanced with a beautiful face. His back end matches his fronted. He does have a lot of eye appeal. He has a great belly for grazing and holding the grass, gaining weight, and chasing the girls. His sheath is really low, and I would be concerned about him damaging it.
Beefmasters are made different from Angus, so I had to look at the breed before I said too much. The Brahman influence can change the confirmation on them.
Where I fault this calf is that he is light in the shoulder. The shoulder should be longer as it drops from his withers, and the point of his shoulder ends quickly.
One thing that I want on a bull is a tremendous forearm, but I don't see this in the Beefmasters as often, but I did see some with larger arms. In other bulls, if the forearm is small, usually the shoulder is underdeveloped too.
The girth on this little bull could be fuller. I would like to see a fuller rump and tie down lower on the hock. I noticed that many of the beef master bulls, young and old had this trait. It is very nice.
He still is a pretty little bull.
Beefmasters are made different from Angus, so I had to look at the breed before I said too much. The Brahman influence can change the confirmation on them.
Where I fault this calf is that he is light in the shoulder. The shoulder should be longer as it drops from his withers, and the point of his shoulder ends quickly.
One thing that I want on a bull is a tremendous forearm, but I don't see this in the Beefmasters as often, but I did see some with larger arms. In other bulls, if the forearm is small, usually the shoulder is underdeveloped too.
The girth on this little bull could be fuller. I would like to see a fuller rump and tie down lower on the hock. I noticed that many of the beef master bulls, young and old had this trait. It is very nice.
He still is a pretty little bull.
dieselbeef
Well-known member
alot of that will come with age..my bull seemed slow coming on also but he covers it now just fine...
Black and Good
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Not a BM expert by no means. But I'll say for his age, he seems do be on the right track. Fancy, Pretty calf. B&G
thommoos
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He is a typical Southeast Beefmaster BULL. he has some sheath but not so much I would not use him. I believe he would add to any program. Weight wise I believe he going to push the 7 mark. I am surprised that the Lassiter Breeding produce that much sheath. Good Bull i think he should make the No Cutting standard.East Caney":2em25g9p said:
I am not saying to cut him. Some bulls are a definite grade up for some commercial herds as people don't buy the best cows. I know this as I decide what to keep myself. Not everyone is going to pay $4500 for a bull, but if you notice I said that the bull is very balanced and has a gut that will let him graze and gain weight and chase the girls. He is an eye catcher for sure. He will gain weight as he goes. Even though what I mentioned about his shoulder and rump, he will continue to put on weight. There are commercial buyers that are looking for a $2500 purchase, and he will fit their program. Some people could pay more. Depending on their cows, he could pull them up too. But if I had a serious commercial herd, I would look for something more developed -heavier, as they are out there. We all raise both kinds. The larger bulkier bulls will bite your pocket book, but you will get the replacement heifers and granddaughters for years to come to improve your herd.
But I would look for a higher octane bull. I would not cut him at this point. I was going over the parts that separated him from being a $2500 bull vs. a $4500 + bull. I can give you the low ends of what is on my farm when I sell something too. I am overly critical of my own stock. I sell commercial bulls, but I want people to go vist the farm that purchased the bull I sold and ask, "Where in the heck did you get that bull?" I want the other people to come to me looking for one just like him. That is why I am so picky on what I send out. I would give that bull more time to develop as his neck is just now starting to grow, and his shoulders may muscle up and he could develop some stronger muscles in his rump. They all don't develop at the same time. Often I send a bull to the sale barn intact as the sale barn manager will sell him as a bull. He must promise that my name is not attached to the bull. It is just a standard I set for myself and I still make money doing it. I am not getting rich by no means.
I have had people come to my house and say, "I bought a bull from "Smiley Smith's Farm" and the calves are not doing anything and I am not happy with them. That is the worst publicity your farm can get.
So if you send out something that inherited the better genes from a cow that passes the best genes repeatedly, then there is a better chance of selling good bulls. Even though they are still commercial quality because they aren't perfect, you know they are full and muscled well because they inherited the genes, and will pass it on to their calves. I only raise two or three bulls a year that I will sell to the public and have had people call when we didn't have bulls. They will come by when I have bulls out in the pen that are below standards, and would never make a bull and want to buy one for a herd bull, and I tell them they are not bull material. I tell them that they would cuss me every day if I sold them those calves for a herd bull. :2cents:
But I would look for a higher octane bull. I would not cut him at this point. I was going over the parts that separated him from being a $2500 bull vs. a $4500 + bull. I can give you the low ends of what is on my farm when I sell something too. I am overly critical of my own stock. I sell commercial bulls, but I want people to go vist the farm that purchased the bull I sold and ask, "Where in the heck did you get that bull?" I want the other people to come to me looking for one just like him. That is why I am so picky on what I send out. I would give that bull more time to develop as his neck is just now starting to grow, and his shoulders may muscle up and he could develop some stronger muscles in his rump. They all don't develop at the same time. Often I send a bull to the sale barn intact as the sale barn manager will sell him as a bull. He must promise that my name is not attached to the bull. It is just a standard I set for myself and I still make money doing it. I am not getting rich by no means.
I have had people come to my house and say, "I bought a bull from "Smiley Smith's Farm" and the calves are not doing anything and I am not happy with them. That is the worst publicity your farm can get.
So if you send out something that inherited the better genes from a cow that passes the best genes repeatedly, then there is a better chance of selling good bulls. Even though they are still commercial quality because they aren't perfect, you know they are full and muscled well because they inherited the genes, and will pass it on to their calves. I only raise two or three bulls a year that I will sell to the public and have had people call when we didn't have bulls. They will come by when I have bulls out in the pen that are below standards, and would never make a bull and want to buy one for a herd bull, and I tell them they are not bull material. I tell them that they would cuss me every day if I sold them those calves for a herd bull. :2cents:
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East Caney
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Would you consider this to be a better overall package for bull potential?
dieselbeef
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looks better underneath
Taurus
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He has clean sheath and he has a bull potential that's for sure!
ALACOWMAN
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Yep, be a good one to put with angus...cow pollinater":2lyk1enw said:
Yes, he packs a lot more weight up front with his shoulders and heart girth, and his tally wacker is closer to his body. But I still would not cut the other one. I still think the other one would sell as he is a pretty bull.
BC
Well-known member
I don't want to upset anyone, but go back and look at the two bulls pictures. They both have some redeeming value depending on how you were to use them. The first bull appears to be stronger topped, longer hipped and more level from hooks to pins - he does have more sheath. Second bull is tighter sheathed and maybe a bit thicker in the front end. I really would like to see a butt view to see which is thicker through the lower 2/3 of the round.
The sheath issue could be a deal breaker for some who are not use to Bos indicus influenced cattle. The first calf does not have a bad sheath and for the area south of I-20 should produce calves with enough heat tolerance to do well. He would also sire calves out of English bred dams that would make super replacement females that could work anywhere and the brothers would be readily accepted in most feedyards.
The sheath issue could be a deal breaker for some who are not use to Bos indicus influenced cattle. The first calf does not have a bad sheath and for the area south of I-20 should produce calves with enough heat tolerance to do well. He would also sire calves out of English bred dams that would make super replacement females that could work anywhere and the brothers would be readily accepted in most feedyards.
I don't think he is a seed stock bull, but he is a better candidate for producing heavy calves for commercial use.
skeeter swatter
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Lots'a leather is not a bad thing in the south.
Both dang good calves.
Both dang good calves.
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East Caney
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It seems like the overwhelming majority thing there is a place for this bull. I'm in agreement. I've seen slick-bellied Beefmaster bulls bred to slick-bellied Beefmaster cows, and the calf comes out with a long sheath. Just the same as I've seen it that way, I've see a bull with sheath produce cleaner made calves. With this particular calf, I think the amount of overall leather he possesses would increase the amount of leather in most Beefmaster herds that I'm familiar with. Someone commented that they were surprised that this much sheath came from Lasater breeding. I would call it atypical, but it does still happen. If we'll accept a bull with just a touch of weakness in the back, or just a bit of coarseness through the shoulders, or just a bit heavy fronted or high in the shoulders, then I don't think they should be cut with just a bit too much sheath. If you live in briar country, he's probably not for you. In an improved grass pasture with English bred cows and in this part of the country, I say this bull could work wonders for a crop of calves. Hopefully, he'll get that chance. The breeder wasn't as excited about the calf as I was. Of course, he had other bull calves to consider over this one...including these two half brothers to the red mottle face bull calf...
thommoos
Well-known member
The consistant thing I see in all of these is the great hind quarters and a sheath with an almost perfect angle to it. 45 degrees. excellent hind quarters, I wish they bred those here in Alabama.
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East Caney
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thommoos":3b1zg8c0 said:
Thommoos, There are multiple buyers in Florida that buy out of the sales these bulls have been going to. Come on over and pick a bull. I'm sure we can get him to you.
EC
