Angus bull

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You don't have to go back in his pedigree very far to get some pretty old genetics. Looks like the breeders are mostly sticking with lower maintenance genetics which won't be kind to the performance numbers. I don't know them but I would look at their program as a whole vs. one particular bull. If they are producing good consistency and he fits in he might be the ticket, the numbers may not represent what he can truly do. Depends on what you're shooting for.
 
EPD is as good as the people u are dealing with. But they are the best thing that angus reg. cattle got going for them . Lets say u got in ur cows u would like to get rid of how can u tell with out EPD that ur not bring it or something in your u really dont want like no milk and or bad feet . or worse yet no growth its a good tool to learn how to use.
Low accuracy EPD's are misleading at the best. Have seen and experienced too many wrecks by using them in selection. Some that know EPD's well and have been involved with them state until an EPD has an accuracy of at least 60% it is of little value. If you went to buy a part for a tractor and was told it was $5,000.00 but only had a 20% chance it would work would you buy it. I look for actual data. What has been the weaning weight of his dam's calves and were they creep fed.
 
You don't have to go back in his pedigree very far to get some pretty old genetics. Looks like the breeders are mostly sticking with lower maintenance genetics which won't be kind to the performance numbers. I don't know them but I would look at their program as a whole vs. one particular bull. If they are producing good consistency and he fits in he might be the ticket, the numbers may not represent what he can truly do. Depends on what you're shooting for.
From what I understand several of their cows came from and or go back to a well known regional producer that has become well known for their lower maintenance cattle. In recent years that program has been AIing to some mainstream bulls.
Like I said, in an earlier post, it's not the direction I want to go, but I've had so many bumps in the road on that direction that it's almost like ok I give up on trying.
 
On low accuracy cattle it can be helpful to ask about the actual performance of the individual and the in-herd performance ratios. Actual BW, WW and YW are good info, especially if those cattle are raised similar to how you raise yours, but the in-herd ratios tells you whether that individual is an outlier (in a desirable or undesirable way) or herd average under that producer's conditions.
 
From what I understand several of their cows came from and or go back to a well known regional producer that has become well known for their lower maintenance cattle. In recent years that program has been AIing to some mainstream bulls.
Like I said, in an earlier post, it's not the direction I want to go, but I've had so many bumps in the road on that direction that it's almost like ok I give up on trying.
Stone Gate. Black Raven used to talk about them before he got banned, if I recall correctly. At least there was quite a bit back there in the pedigree.
 
I'd ignore the EPDs. I would look at the pedigree. Photos of cattle are really hard to judge most of the time. He's a long yearling which I always think is when bulls look the worst. If your market is dependent on getting cows bred and he does that then . . . . If you trust the seller perhaps you've found a source for good bulls for awhile. The suggestion on calling gizmom is also not a bad one.
 
How are his back feet? Can't really see them in the pics. The first pic he seems maybe overly soft in his rear pasterns, but really need to see him on the move. All the angles from pasterns to stifle to hip need to match up. Otherwise, looks like a decent Angus bull. It's not easy to get big hips on Angus, but width at the pin bones is something to watch for even if they don't have a continental breed butt.
I just used your article for my newsletter!

Someone made a comment about the EPD's and "trusting" the breeder. Trust me - unless the BREEDER has a couple thousand cows and is trying to "promote" the sire or dam of this particular animal by breeding the couple thousand head - AND - they manipulate the reported figures - your BREEDER has NOTHING to do with the EPD's. Also, if a calf is sired by a walking bull, the ancestors have much more influence than the walking bull.
People make it sound like I could manipulate the numbers turned in on a particular calf and make his EPD's shine. NOPE. Doesn't work that way.
 
Several people have recommended gizmom and i know she has some excellent cattle. But Ky Hills is in the fescue belt and im pretty sure she doesn't have any fescue. Might be fine anyway but something to consider.

The gizmo bull I have is doing great on fescue. Nice and slick and has not melted one bit.
 
Well we went ahead and purchased the bull.
I appreciate the assessments and suggestions.
It would have been a good thing I'm sure to have gotten a bull from Gizmo Angus.
I know they have top quality Angus cattle.
We considered contacting them, but then decided against it.
I would rather be in Florida than to bring a bull from there. Lol
We are just not big on sight unseen purchases even though I'm sure they would do us right.
Late in season, picked over bulls, not exactly the timing I would want for a venture like that. Then there's the long haul in this heat, then be expected to breed cows and eat fescue ( clover is good this year so it is diluted).
I know the EPD's are not good on the bull we bought nor is great in a lot of other areas, but he looks consistent with the Angus that I see around here though a lot them have much better numbers.
The Stone Gate breeding on the bottom side is atleast longtime established regional genetics that a lot of people swear by.
He is basically replacing our older BWF bull. My thinking is this Angus bull will put out calves very similar to the BWF but will be all black or BWF.
Later on we are hoping to buy another Hereford bull that will be more of a growth bull.
 
Several people have recommended gizmom and i know she has some excellent cattle. But Ky Hills is in the fescue belt and im pretty sure she doesn't have any fescue. Might be fine anyway but something to consider.
For 50 years, 80-85% of the Brahma cattle I have bought have come out of south Ga, Fla, and LA (lower Alabama), and every pasture I have had has been all or mostly fescue. Never had a problem with a single one. I had never even heard of fescue being a problem for cattle til I joined CT. Pregnant mares, yes, but never cattle.
 
Well we went ahead and purchased the bull.
I appreciate the assessments and suggestions.
It would have been a good thing I'm sure to have gotten a bull from Gizmo Angus.
I know they have top quality Angus cattle.
We considered contacting them, but then decided against it.
I would rather be in Florida than to bring a bull from there. Lol
We are just not big on sight unseen purchases even though I'm sure they would do us right.
Late in season, picked over bulls, not exactly the timing I would want for a venture like that. Then there's the long haul in this heat, then be expected to breed cows and eat fescue ( clover is good this year so it is diluted).
I know the EPD's are not good on the bull we bought nor is great in a lot of other areas, but he looks consistent with the Angus that I see around here though a lot them have much better numbers.
The Stone Gate breeding on the bottom side is atleast longtime established regional genetics that a lot of people swear by.
He is basically replacing our older BWF bull. My thinking is this Angus bull will put out calves very similar to the BWF but will be all black or BWF.
Later on we are hoping to buy another Hereford bull that will be more of a growth bull.

I don't think that bull is a bad bull and I think in a few months he will look even better. My last bull did not look near as nice as that one you got and then around month 18 on some good grass it was like he turned the corner.
 
It's a bull from friends, they are getting into registered Angus. $4000
That's same price I paid for a Limflex 18 month old. True 1/2lim/ 1/2 angus!
He came with no EPD's, but both parents had EPD for angus mom & limousin dad.
More then I've ever paid, but got $1,900 pet calf this last year and guess that's not a bad price really!!
 
On low accuracy cattle it can be helpful to ask about the actual performance of the individual and the in-herd performance ratios. Actual BW, WW and YW are good info, especially if those cattle are raised similar to how you raise yours, but the in-herd ratios tells you whether that individual is an outlier (in a desirable or undesirable way) or herd average under that producer's conditions.
I have had breeders including this year refuse to provide actual data or in herd ratios. He only provided same pasture ratios. He said they run their cows scattered over a large area and the forage quality varies so he doesn't do in herd comparisons or provide actual data. When this is the policy I move on.
 

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