cost effectiveness of castrating?

[Txwalt]

One of the posts earlier discussed weight gain on steers vs. bull calves. It seems that bull calves gain more weight than steers. This makes sense if you take into consideration that heifer calves gain less weight than bull calves and chemistry is lost when we denut the little guys. Reading one of the posts recently it seems you only gain $5 to $8 per steer vs. bull calf at the auction. It just doesn't seem worth it to me to castrate a bull calf and lose the added weight potential. Most times I post something like this I'm wrong. This is a good thing so I can adjust what I'm doing. Am I wrong again?

Walt

 

[bigbull338]

One of the posts earlier discussed weight gain on steers vs. bull calves. It seems that bull calves gain more weight than steers. This makes sense if you take into consideration that heifer calves gain less weight than bull calves and chemistry is lost when we denut the little guys. Reading one of the posts recently it seems you only gain $5 to $8 per steer vs. bull calf at the auction. It just doesn't seem worth it to me to castrate a bull calf and lose the added weight potential. Most times I post something like this I'm wrong. This is a good thing so I can adjust what I'm doing. Am I wrong again?

Walt

now ill prolly start a war.but i dont cut the bull calves.dont see the profit in it.by the time you figure the time it takes to pen an work the calves.same thing with dehorning the bulls.as said bull calves gain weight as fast or faster than steers.

 

[Sir Loin]

FYI:
Castration: Not Cutting Will Cut Profits

Castration is an essential procedure in a competitive commercial cow-calf operation. When done properly, castration of the bull calves will increase the return to the operation. In a recent study, conducted by the Tennessee Department of Agriculture, a number of factors were analyzed for their effect on the price of feeder cattle. Specifically focusing on castration, thirty-nine percent of the male feeder cattle marketed were marketed as bulls from April 1992 through March 1993. The bull calves were discounted an average of $2.09 per hundred weight when compared to the steers.
The major concern of feeding bulls is the marketing system. The beef marketing system favors steer carcasses. The steer carcasses can be marketed through a greater number of channels than bull carcasses. Feedlot managers prefer steers to bulls for a number of reasons. Generally, steers are easier to handle and more docile than bulls. Steers are also not as rough on equipment and are easier to manage as new individuals added to feedlots.

Source:
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/an_sci/extensi ... 63art.html

FYI:

In the United States, more than 17 million bulls between 1 d and 1 y of age are castrated annually. However, many producers still do not castrate even though calves marketed at weaning as steers have a $3.56/cwt advantage compared with bulls (Smith et al., 2000).
Bulls that are castrated and given an estrogenic growth stimulant have similar weight gain compared with bulls (Bagley et al., 1989), yet producers often cite fear of reduced weaning weights as a reason for not castrating. Castration decreases aggressive behavior and increases carcass quality (Seideman et al., 1982).

Source:
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/research/2001rr/48/48.htm

FYI:

As can be seen from the above experiments, bull calves purchased as stockers are worth less than steers regardless of the method of castration. A good rule of thumb is that bull calves are worth $1-$2 per hundred weight less than comparable steers (Table 4).

Source:
http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/ ... s-337.html

 

[MikeC]

One of the posts earlier discussed weight gain on steers vs. bull calves. It seems that bull calves gain more weight than steers. This makes sense if you take into consideration that heifer calves gain less weight than bull calves and chemistry is lost when we denut the little guys. Reading one of the posts recently it seems you only gain $5 to $8 per steer vs. bull calf at the auction. It just doesn't seem worth it to me to castrate a bull calf and lose the added weight potential. Most times I post something like this I'm wrong. This is a good thing so I can adjust what I'm doing. Am I wrong again?

Walt

Walt. If you will band them at birth (be sure to get both nuts) you will be way ahead of the game. They never check up after that.

It's easy, inexpensive, and efficient. NEVER had a problem.

From what I understand from the feedlot manager I use is that older (after 6-7 months), knife cut calves will never add the marbling that a newborn cut calf will.

 

[Txwalt]

$2.09 per hundred weight is still only $10.45 at 500 lbs. The study also did not take into consideration weight gain associated with not castration calves.

Walt

 

[Txwalt]

One of the posts earlier discussed weight gain on steers vs. bull calves. It seems that bull calves gain more weight than steers. This makes sense if you take into consideration that heifer calves gain less weight than bull calves and chemistry is lost when we denut the little guys. Reading one of the posts recently it seems you only gain $5 to $8 per steer vs. bull calf at the auction. It just doesn't seem worth it to me to castrate a bull calf and lose the added weight potential. Most times I post something like this I'm wrong. This is a good thing so I can adjust what I'm doing. Am I wrong again?

Walt

Walt. If you will band them at birth (be sure to get both nuts) you will be way ahead of the game. They never check up after that.

It's easy, inexpensive, and efficient. NEVER had a problem.

From what I understand from the feedlot manager I use is that older (after 6-7 months), knife cut calves will never add the marbling that a newborn cut calf will.

Just banded my first calf a couple weeks ago. No problem, quick and easy. I'm just questioning the economics of it. To me it seems the feedlot guys are not going to pay what it is worth for you/us to do it.

Walt

 

[Howdyjabo]

I am all for not cutting calves in a cow/calf operation
It keeps me(and others) in business

seriously unless I could band them at birth- I wouldn't bother right now-IF i was selling at the local weekly sales. If the market ever tightens-ie more supply than demand. then The following increase in price spread would make it more profitable.

 

[glover36]

people who dont castrate are the ones who provide all those very eye catching bulls that you see in the breeds board that all the newcomers post that they just say they had bought and anybody that knows cows can see that they got ripped off. if you dont castrate bulls up here you will loose its not even a question of to castrate or not its when and how you are going to do it.

 

[Txwalt]

people who dont castrate are the ones who provide all those very eye catching bulls that you see in the breeds board that all the newcomers post that they just say they had bought and anybody that knows cows can see that they got ripped off. if you dont castrate bulls up here you will loose its not even a question of to castrate or not its when and how you are going to do it.

The beginning of your post does not address the economics of it. More of the new guy buying bull calves at auction by ingnorance. Can you give us #'s as to why its not even a question up there? Price difference in steers vs. bull calves? Honest question not starting anything. I'm learning.

Walt

 

[ga. prime]

Txwalt I think you're wrong, but I don't know you're wrong. I could be wrong, but I think I'm right. Here's what I do:
The Ga. State Veterinarians office says it's worth $5/cwt for steers over bull calves. I don't think bulls outgain steers. I put castration bands on mine when I find them in the pasture, either the day they're born or the next day. Simple as pie. Then, when I get a bunch of calves a month or so old, I pen them (all steers and heifers too that I'm not considering for breeding stock) and give them an ear implant. The implants are also recommended by the State Vet's office and are estimated to (I think I'm right on this) add 25-40lb to each calfs weight. Actually, the State Vet says to implant them when they're born , but I don't follow that advice. Weaning weight(along with getting top dollar per pound) are my foremost objectives and I'm well pleased with the weaning weights I've been getting.

Anyway, I don't have a bunch of bull yearlings running all over the pasture trying to breed everything in sight. Not being critical of bigbull or anybody else that doesn't castrate. That's their business.

 

[glover36]

We there are no numbers to my knowledge because everybody around here here castrates accept for young calves going to the veal farms castrates. only time i ever saw someone buy a load of bull calves was when they bought a load of steers and when the got them home they found out that the person had only taken one nut out of them when they castrated them, so the person buying did not know. there just no demand for them up here everyone wants heifers or steers

 

[Jogeephus]

In my situation I have found it dangerous and inefficient to band at birth. I cut them when I first work them while they are safely in the chute and the mommas are safely behind fences. (Neighbor spent three weeks in hospital because somebody objected to his banding her calf. This is a potential cost I think you should take into consideration.)

 

[glover36]

We pinch here at about when there a month old. since we calve all year round its not worth the cost to cut them since we only will do 4 or 5 at a time.

 

[dun]

Part of the reason we cut/band at birth or shortly after is strictly economic. If I retain a heifer I don;t want her to have been bred at 5-7 months and we get docked $250 for any pregnant heifer that we market via our marketing associaiton. The association requires all bulls be castrated and healed before shipping.

 

[Ryder]

Part of the reason we cut/band at birth or shortly after is strictly economic. If I retain a heifer I don;t want her to have been bred at 5-7 months and we get docked $250 for any pregnant heifer that we market via our marketing associaiton. The association requires all bulls be castrated and healed before shipping.

Quote by Jefferson in the signature line at bottom of your original post is excellent.

 

[Limomike]

This is interesting to me.. all this talk about banding, cutting bulls. To cut/band or not to... that is the question. I am currently in a test phase of NOT banding or cutting my bull calves. I got 7 calves that I banded about 6 months ago, and all my early bull calves I have NOT banded. I am going to do a comparison to just see if these bulls gain weight faster than those heifers do; and then see what type of $$ they bring at the sale when I take them in.

 

[flaboy?]

Must be area dependent. I don't castrate unless I am raising one for the freezer. I agree with bigbull, too much trouble for very little if any return.

I also think much of it depends on weaning weight and ages. Down here due to lower protein grasses we are stuck with weaning weights lower than many I'm sure. Mine go to market early. By that I mean in the 300-500 pound range. When they are run through the auctioneer says "here we have a group of steers". I think the buyers understand it's not much of a problem to steer them at that size.

I haven't seen a bull listed on my sale sheet since I hauled an injured bull (7 YO) years ago. Every male is listed as a steer.

Are you guys seeing "bulls" and "steers" listed on yours if you have both?

 

[Brandonm2]

Must be area dependent. I don't castrate unless I am raising one for the freezer. I agree with bigbull, too much trouble for very little if any return.

I also think much of it depends on weaning weight and ages. Down here due to lower protein grasses we are stuck with weaning weights lower than many I'm sure. Mine go to market early. By that I mean in the 300-500 pound range. When they are run through the auctioneer says "here we have a group of steers". I think the buyers understand it's not much of a problem to steer them at that size.

I haven't seen a bull listed on my sale sheet since I hauled an injured bull (7 YO) years ago. Every male is listed as a steer.

Are you guys seeing "bulls" and "steers" listed on yours if you have both?

Your stockyard is lazy. At ours an intact red bull, shows up on the description as a "red bull" while the black steer is accurately described as "black steer". Ours even includes "wf" in there for white faced as in "red wf bull" and Holsteins get that in their description too. They do make mistakes; but if I had a small load I could distinguish one animal from another from their weights and description without looking up my own ear tag/sale number list.

I think every state does this; but in Alabama the livestock marketing service differentiates in their reports between bulls and steers so you can watch the size of the castration dock.

 

[flaboy?]

Brandon, all we get is "s" or "h" on our reports. Oh, I sometimes get a "cow" when I send a cull.

 

[Green Creek]

What are the pros and cons of banding at weaning?