Corn Gas

[ChrisB]

Drought caused the high corn prices more than ethanol did.

And ethanol has very little to do with people starving across the globe. In case people don't remember there were more people starving before we started using ethanol than there is now. The problem has always been how to get the excess food to the starving people.

And the old idea that ethanol takes more energy than it produces is from a study done in the late 80's and was promptly proven to be flawed. Plus with advancements in farming practices, increased bushels per acre, and improved manufacturing techniques it is better now than then.

I'm not a big ethanol backer, but when an article claims it is going to tell the "facts" about something, I would expect them to do a little research.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

he's lurking.... its just a matter of time now :cowboy:

 

[Brute 23]

he's lurking.... its just a matter of time now :cowboy:

I think I get that ..... but I'm not 100%.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

he's lurking.... its just a matter of time now :cowboy:

I think I get that ..... but I'm not 100%.

before you'r all taken to school....
:cowboy:

 

[Bigfoot]

Obviously some knowledgeable people on here. Here is a question that I have wondered about:

For every 1,000 pounds of feed consumed by a beef animal beeing finished, how many pounds of that feed was a byproduct?

All the back yard guys don't count. Im talking about in a modern feedlot.

I go through about 3 tons of feed every 2 weeks. Most of which is a byproduct.

 

[TexasBred]

Obviously some knowledgeable people on here. Here is a question that I have wondered about:

For every 1,000 pounds of feed consumed by a beef animal beeing finished, how many pounds of that feed was a byproduct?

All the back yard guys don't count. Im talking about in a modern feedlot.

I go through about 3 tons of feed every 2 weeks. Most of which is a byproduct.

Technically, just about all of it except the actual grain (corn, milo, wheat, barley . Even the protein supplements such as soybean meal, cottonseed meal, canoloa, etc. are byproducts from the extraction ofthe primary product which is the oil. Very little goes to waste anymore and even whole grains of seed are literally peeled layer by layer to get various products like wheat midds, wheat bran and red dog. The same for corn and rice.

 

[greybeard]

TB, aren't rice feeds a high % of bran, with the hulls pretty much non digestible in a 24 hr time period?

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Drought caused the high corn prices more than ethanol did.

And ethanol has very little to do with people starving across the globe. In case people don't remember there were more people starving before we started using ethanol than there is now. The problem has always been how to get the excess food to the starving people.

And the old idea that ethanol takes more energy than it produces is from a study done in the late 80's and was promptly proven to be flawed. Plus with advancements in farming practices, increased bushels per acre, and improved manufacturing techniques it is better now than then.

I'm not a big ethanol backer, but when an article claims it is going to tell the "facts" about something, I would expect them to do a little research.

Sorry Chris, there is a basic principle called supply and demand. When you fix the demand by mandates, it does something to the supply. You can't argue against that. It is a basic tenet of economics.

The energy produced from ethanol is extremely limited and it is expensive and drives up the cost of production. There is no reason to have a mandated production of ethanol when we are producing the volumes of oil and gas we are. If there is a shortage, why not just open up the coastal waters as directed by the judicial system? Mandated ethanol production is flawed.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I would almost bet that it take more energy to make ethanol out of corn than almost any other thing it could be made out of.

 

[greybeard]

I would almost bet that it take more energy to make ethanol out of corn than almost any other thing it could be made out of.

Depends on one's definition of "energy cost". Besides the actual fuel needed to grow the corn, transport the grain, process the grain,
transport the processed ethanol, you also have to take into account the energy (btu/gal) you get out of the end product. Since ethanol has a much lower energy than conventional fuels, it will not be as cost effective. For example, E85 (85% Ethanol-15% gasoline) contains 75,670 British thermal units of energy per gallon instead of 115,400 for regular unleaded gasoline, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. So you have to burn more fuel to generate the same amount of energy.

Every single test done for ethanol blend fuels has resulted in lower fuel economy (MPG) for E85 versus pure gasoline. E10 (90% gasoline/10% ethanol) also results in lower fuel efficiency than straight gasoline.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2011 ... /index.htm

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e85 ... -test.html

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Get you a bushel of corn and see how much alcohol you can get out of it. They is a reason gallon of whiskey cost more than a gallon of gas.

 

[ChrisB]

Drought caused the high corn prices more than ethanol did.

And ethanol has very little to do with people starving across the globe. In case people don't remember there were more people starving before we started using ethanol than there is now. The problem has always been how to get the excess food to the starving people.

And the old idea that ethanol takes more energy than it produces is from a study done in the late 80's and was promptly proven to be flawed. Plus with advancements in farming practices, increased bushels per acre, and improved manufacturing techniques it is better now than then.

I'm not a big ethanol backer, but when an article claims it is going to tell the "facts" about something, I would expect them to do a little research.

Sorry Chris, there is a basic principle called supply and demand. When you fix the demand by mandates, it does something to the supply. You can't argue against that. It is a basic tenet of economics.

The energy produced from ethanol is extremely limited and it is expensive and drives up the cost of production. There is no reason to have a mandated production of ethanol when we are producing the volumes of oil and gas we are. If there is a shortage, why not just open up the coastal waters as directed by the judicial system? Mandated ethanol production is flawed.

I agree with your statement, but I was talking about the jump in corn prices seen last winter. With the increased demand there was also a big increase in acres planted. With an average corn harvest last year the price would have remained stable but the drought caused a reduction in corn harvested. As I stated, many ethanol plants shut down and did not buy any corn so not as much corn was used by ethanol plants. Plants are running again and using corn and yet prices have come down quite a bit this year.

Also, keep in mind that not all the corn just disappears and becomes ethanol - for every bushel of corn you get 17 lbs. of ddgs which is fed to livestock.

There is no doubt that ethanol has effect on grain markets but it is not nearly as bad as it is portrayed. To be clear, I'm not saying ethanol is a great or even a good product. IMO there are better options being researched. And I also agree that we shouldn't have mandates. But some of the stuff I read about ethanol just proves the point that if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes a fact.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

No research needed to find a better product to make ethanol out of.

 

[TexasBred]

TB, aren't rice feeds a high % of bran, with the hulls pretty much non digestible in a 24 hr time period?

The bran is the good part. Typically has 12 protein, 12 fat and 12 fiber. The hulls are little more than filler and that's the source of most of the fiber you see guaranteed in the cheaper feeds. Very little protein and almost totally undigestible.

 

[TexasBred]

No research needed to find a better product to make ethanol out of.

There's still some research being done on using fiber based materials as the source...sugarcane, switchgrass, etc. There's at least one plant I'm aware of here in Texas that makes ethanol from milo. Produces more gallons of ethanol per bushel of raw material , the milo cost about a two dollars per hundredweight less than corn AND the byproduct (DDG) is higher in protein, fat and energy than DDG from corn. But most still choose corn.

 

[Brute 23]

No research needed to find a better product to make ethanol out of.

There's still some research being done on using fiber based materials as the source...sugarcane, switchgrass, etc. There's at least one plant I'm aware of here in Texas that makes ethanol from milo. Produces more gallons of ethanol per bushel of raw material , the milo cost about a two dollars per hundredweight less than corn AND the byproduct (DDG) is higher in protein, fat and energy than DDG from corn. But most still choose corn.

I have read the article about producing it from sugar cane. Its supposedly cheaper and it wouldn't effect a lot of other products.

At the end of the day ethanol is not our fix... its an illusion to give the appearance of change. The facts are people are converting to CNG daily and seeing actual saving in their pocket right now to justify it.

 

[Bigfoot]

Thanks for posting the 56 pounds of corn yields 17 pounds of ddg. I had always wondered what the break down was. I feel a little better about what I give for it now.

 

[TexasBred]

I have read the article about producing it from sugar cane. Its supposedly cheaper and it wouldn't effect a lot of other products.

At the end of the day ethanol is not our fix... its an illusion to give the appearance of change. The facts are people are converting to CNG daily and seeing actual saving in their pocket right now to justify it.

Agreed....but I havent' heard much about the conversion to natural gas. I know Ft. Worth and now Dallas have converted all their city buses to natural gas but that's about it. No news about any public refueling stations that I've heard.

 

[Brute 23]

I have read the article about producing it from sugar cane. Its supposedly cheaper and it wouldn't effect a lot of other products.

At the end of the day ethanol is not our fix... its an illusion to give the appearance of change. The facts are people are converting to CNG daily and seeing actual saving in their pocket right now to justify it.

Agreed....but I havent' heard much about the conversion to natural gas. I know Ft. Worth and now Dallas have converted all their city buses to natural gas but that's about it. No news about any public refueling stations that I've heard.

Every major city has several. There is a group called Texas Natural Gas Now and they do articles and updates every time a terminal is opened or when major companies all convert to CNG. I think they are the ones that have maps and stuff where you can get CNG.

There are several car companies that sell CNG cars with compressor you can put at your house. You can get a 3/4 Chevy with 6.0 that will run on NG or Gasoline.

http://www.texasnaturalgasnow.com/

 

[HDRider]

I have read the article about producing it from sugar cane. Its supposedly cheaper and it wouldn't effect a lot of other products.

At the end of the day ethanol is not our fix... its an illusion to give the appearance of change. The facts are people are converting to CNG daily and seeing actual saving in their pocket right now to justify it.

Agreed....but I havent' heard much about the conversion to natural gas. I know Ft. Worth and now Dallas have converted all their city buses to natural gas but that's about it. No news about any public refueling stations that I've heard.

Waste Management Opens 50th Natural Gas Fueling Station
Company adds natural gas trucks and public station in Jackson, Miss.

JACKSON, MISS. — July 31, 2013 — Waste Management (NYSE:WM) today announced the opening of its 50th natural gas fueling station, a further move toward the company's sustainability goals of reducing its fleet emissions and increasing its fuel efficiency. At a ceremony in Jackson, Miss., state, county and local officials joined the company to dedicate the fueling station and the fleet, which will service routes in the communities in and around the city.

http://www.wm.com/about/press-room/2013 ... tation.jsp