cooling room?

[Iowa-angus]

Hi. The other day I came across a design to build an insulated room in a barn and put in a window AC... Has anybody heard of this? does it work?

 

[jkwilson]

Yes it works, but most people use something bigger than a window AC for it. Pretty embarassing for the cattle industry that we judge the quality of cattle on their hair coat though.

 

[Jovid]

Yes it works, but most people use something bigger than a window AC for it. Pretty embarassing for the cattle industry that we judge the quality of cattle on their hair coat though.

Yep.....I still haven't found a market for cattle hair and bone

 

[tom4018]

Been hearing a rumor around here the they were going to a quarter inch clip rule on some shows. That would level the field out.

 

[3waycross]

Been hearing a rumor around here the they were going to a quarter inch clip rule on some shows. That would level the field out.

I think it should be absolutely mandatory on ALL 4H shows. Then these kids could be judged by their work instead of their daddy's bankroll.

 

[CPL]

Actually I'm going to disagree here.

People that show cattle, and show cattle seriously/professionally/(whatever you want to call it) have been showing cattle with hair for years. Clipping, Fitting, Feeding, Growing Hair, etc al. ---- That's all part of the game.

Now if you don't want to play their game that's fine. Quite whinning. Who are you to come in and tell them they should change what they're doing???

I'll be the first to tell you that show cattle, in alot of cases, are the furthest thing away from real functional practical cattle. However, that doesn't mean that someone else can't take pride in and enjoy the process of showing.

Oh and another thing, Three inches of hair is not going to turn a sale barn calf into a purple banner champion. Hair or no hair, the better calves will always sort their way to the top.

 

[3waycross]

Actually I'm going to disagree here.

People that show cattle, and show cattle seriously/professionally/(whatever you want to call it) have been showing cattle with hair for years. Clipping, Fitting, Feeding, Growing Hair, etc al. ---- That's all part of the game.

Now if you don't want to play their game that's fine. Quite whinning. Who are you to come in and tell them they should change what they're doing???

I'll be the first to tell you that show cattle, in alot of cases, are the furthest thing away from real functional practical cattle. However, that doesn't mean that someone else can't take pride in and enjoy the process of showing.

Oh and another thing, Three inches of hair is not going to turn a sale barn calf into a purple banner champion. Hair or no hair, the better calves will always sort their way to the top.

Not disagreeing but what does that have to do with 4H. The statement was to go to a 1/4 in clip. That would reveal the calf that the kid produced not the money the parents spent on electricity, to create a cold room.. I know that a turd in a Tux is still a turd but with these kids it should be about the work THEY do not the money or the parents.

About telling anyone what to do. I didn't. I voiced my opinion just like YOU just did. That's who I am and I have every right to voice my opinion. It bothered you cuz it hit close to home is my guess. I wasn't trying to offend or tell anyone what THEY shoud do. Just what I think of the deal with 4H.

I have seen some real garbage in that little game including a kid who's grandfather donates 10 to 15 calves to be fed out and halterbroke by the help and then the best one shows up at the fair as little billy's 4H steer.

For the record I grew up showing Quarter horses, and have seen how easy it is to rig a show. When we were in it it was all about who you PAID to walk your horse into the ring. But at least the horses were for the most part functional, not all but most.

 

[pdfangus]

personally I despise the show ring for animals......
it has been responsible in my life time for
belt buckle cattle where you could see the belt buckle over their back.
belt buckle cattle where you could see the belt buckle under their belly
peanut roller pleasure horses that look like anything but a pleasure to ride
the ruination of many a dog breed.

people in there fanatcism to win will take a statement by a judge to extremes and it becomes the accepted style and down the road to ruination we go.

I think showing and showmanship are great for kids but they are horrible for breeds.

 

[CKC1586]

Yes it works, but most people use something bigger than a window AC for it. Pretty embarassing for the cattle industry that we judge the quality of cattle on their hair coat though.

Yep.....I still haven't found a market for cattle hair and bone

CRAZY ain't it!? I just don't get it and when did hair production take over meat production???

 

[jkwilson]

The key thing to remember here is that people are growing and grooming the hair to make the underlying structure of the animal look better than it is.

Kind of like the NFL drafting players who wear inflatable muscle suits to look big and strong, rather than drafting players based on careful measurements and observation of their performance. If we got rid of the hair dressing, then kids (and adult show people) could concentrate on genetics, feeding and management to make the animals look better.

 

[3waycross]

The key thing to remember here is that people are growing and grooming the hair to make the underlying structure of the animal look better than it is.

Kind of like the NFL drafting players who wear inflatable muscle suits to look big and strong, rather than drafting players based on careful measurements and observation of their performance. If we got rid of the hair dressing, then kids (and adult show people) could concentrate on genetics, feeding and management to make the animals look better.

WOW! now there's a novel concept!

 

[VCC]

A good judge can tell if the animal has faults, hair or not, I think the real issue here is that years ago you could take a steer from your top 10 percent of your commercial herd and the could compete, now days if the show is competitive they wont win their class.

We showed commercial calves for the first 2 years of showing, then we started buying calves with club calve genetics. Had to if we wanted to compete, and it wasn't for the hair, most calves in our county do not have any hair, but they do not have any butt or natural width either.

The way you some of guys talk I would suggest you just stay out off the Show Board and you would be happier. Until they pull them out of the feed lot and just slap a # on their butt and run them out in the ring for the judge to pick the best animal. Calves will be prettied up to look their best.

 

[Jovid]

The key thing to remember here is that people are growing and grooming the hair to make the underlying structure of the animal look better than it is.

Kind of like the NFL drafting players who wear inflatable muscle suits to look big and strong, rather than drafting players based on careful measurements and observation of their performance. If we got rid of the hair dressing, then kids (and adult show people) could concentrate on genetics, feeding and management to make the animals look better.

WOW! not there's a novel concept!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[3waycross]

A good judge can tell if the animal has faults, hair or not, I think the real issue here is that years ago you could take a steer from your top 10 percent of your commercial herd and the could compete, now days if the show is competitive they wont win their class.

We showed commercial calves for the first 2 years of showing, then we started buying calves with club calve genetics. Had to if we wanted to compete, and it wasn't for the hair, most calves in our county do not have any hair, but they do not have any butt or natural width either.

The way you some of guys talk I would suggest you just stay out off the Show Board and you would be happier. Until they pull them out of the feed lot and just slap a # on their butt and run them out in the ring for the judge to pick the best animal. Calves will be prettied up to look their best.

VCC you are probably right but we can still dream about a world where it's still about the kids and the cattle rather than the adults and the POODLES

 

[VCC]

How is it not about the kids and the cattle? My kids steers had some hair but not much, (no cool box) See pictures in fair steers 2010. He still worked them every day rinsed twice trained the little hair they had so they looked their best. The hair, skin and over all appearance was clean and healthy looking. He also won showmanship, I contribute this to all the time he put into the animals prior to the fair.
The same kids who whine about "hair only wins" are the same ones who would sit in the same spot in the class if we went to slick shear show. You are not going to beat the kid who has worked with his animal when all they do is pour feed in the barrel and check their water. Feed them when they have time, not on a given schedule. Wash them for the first time just before you load them on the trailer to go to the fair. Have the halters on them from day one because they can't catch them with out one, adjust them only after the see they are starting to digging in their heads. I know that is on the worst case side and there are a lot of kids who fit in the middle some where. The more time you put into it the better the results should be.
We have one family in our county that has a cool box and they are always at the top end, but I can guaranty that even with out the cool box their calves would still look hairy, the last few months before the fair he puts 2 to 3 hours in to each calf he has, he won champion at our fair and FFA champion at state. The cool box helps but with out the work you would a calf with long nasty hair. I believe that the lesson they learned is the more time you put in the more you will get out of it.

If you want it to be a level playing ground this is what you would have to do:
Find a ranch with uniform calves of the same age and breed,
Have each kid draw a number for their turn to pick a calf,
They would take these calves home and feed them out for their fair,
The animals would be judged on ADG, appearance, handling, and yield grade.
What you should end up with a bunch of calves that all look the same grade the same and weigh the same.
They won't be. Some kids will buy cheep feed, some kids will not feed on a schedule, and some kids won't adjust the feed as the calf grows. They will keep them in a tiny pen and never take them out. Some kids will work with them everyday, feed them the best feed they can, rinse and blow out every day. In the End the same kids on average will still be at the top and the same kids will be at the bottom.

We had one of those families that you are referring to, dad spends tons of money on cattle, buys a cool box, hires someone to work with the cattle. We beat them with a calf that cost less than a quarter of what theirs did last year. We fed ours right, my kid knew his animals faults and how to best hide them in the ring. (Not cheating just walking at a pace that did not exaggerate any problems, setting him up where he looked his best)
The father lost it when their steer did not win, they did not come back this year, my guess is he embarrassed his kids so bad they did not want to come back.

 

[3waycross]

How is it not about the kids and the cattle? My kids steers had some hair but not much, (no cool box) See pictures in fair steers 2010. He still worked them every day rinsed twice trained the little hair they had so they looked their best. The hair, skin and over all appearance was clean and healthy looking. He also won showmanship, I contribute this to all the time he put into the animals prior to the fair.
The same kids who whine about "hair only wins" are the same ones who would sit in the same spot in the class if we went to slick shear show. You are not going to beat the kid who has worked with his animal when all they do is pour feed in the barrel and check their water. Feed them when they have time, not on a given schedule. Wash them for the first time just before you load them on the trailer to go to the fair. Have the halters on them from day one because they can't catch them with out one, adjust them only after the see they are starting to digging in their heads. I know that is on the worst case side and there are a lot of kids who fit in the middle some where. The more time you put into it the better the results should be.
We have one family in our county that has a cool box and they are always at the top end, but I can guaranty that even with out the cool box their calves would still look hairy, the last few months before the fair he puts 2 to 3 hours in to each calf he has, he won champion at our fair and FFA champion at state. The cool box helps but with out the work you would a calf with long nasty hair. I believe that the lesson they learned is the more time you put in the more you will get out of it.

If you want it to be a level playing ground this is what you would have to do:
Find a ranch with uniform calves of the same age and breed,
Have each kid draw a number for their turn to pick a calf,
They would take these calves home and feed them out for their fair,
The animals would be judged on ADG, appearance, handling, and yield grade.
What you should end up with a bunch of calves that all look the same grade the same and weigh the same.
They won't be. Some kids will buy cheep feed, some kids will not feed on a schedule, and some kids won't adjust the feed as the calf grows. They will keep them in a tiny pen and never take them out. Some kids will work with them everyday, feed them the best feed they can, rinse and blow out every day. In the End the same kids on average will still be at the top and the same kids will be at the bottom.

We had one of those families that you are referring to, dad spends tons of money on cattle, buys a cool box, hires someone to work with the cattle. We beat them with a calf that cost less than a quarter of what theirs did last year. We fed ours right, my kid knew his animals faults and how to best hide them in the ring. (Not cheating just walking at a pace that did not exaggerate any problems, setting him up where he looked his best)
The father lost it when their steer did not win, they did not come back this year, my guess is he embarrassed his kids so bad they did not want to come back.

Yours are the KIND of kids I am talking about, HOWEVER they are still using "CLUB CALF" genetics which don't work much in the real world. I offer this quote from FLACOWMAN Showing today is mostly a money pit unless you are small time and don't pay much over market for a calf or either at the top and selling calves at the major shows. Raising show cattle is good money on the other hand. You would be amazed at how much money a bull that carries a deadly genetic defect, has massive birthweights, and throws mediocre heifers (I'm talking about heat wave) has made people. I do agree that club calves are now unrealistic but the purebred shows and breeders sttill know what is about for the most part.

I rest my case.

 

[VCC]

Heat Wave is a TERMINAL sire, you do not keep replacement heifers out of terminal bulls do you? My guess is no. Heat wave was in full production prior to the defect being identified. Would I breed to the few cows I have to him? No. Would I purchase a steer out of him, for showing? Yes. Would I purchase a heifer out of him, no, no matter what she looked like, if I was given one, I would put her in the freezer.

On the average I would say that the perfect show steers looks like the type of cattle everyone is looking for, how do I come to this conclusion? Every time someone post a picture of a bull on here what are the comments. Not enough rear, to narrow, tight flanked, tight hearted, do not like the way his hooks and pins slope, to much leather, to tall not enough width, to light boned, ect.

Heat Wave was used to produce steers to try and get everything in one cool looking package: big boned, smooth shouldered, goose fronted, wide hipped, no slope what so ever from hooks to pins, deep bodied 50" tall at 1400 pounds. A table top for a back.

You just gave up a lot of maternal traits to get there. I would say there are some Club calf bulls that could help the commercial guy but since they are marked as club calf they would never be used.

It is like the ideal anything, they are not realistic, the old stereo typical look for women (Barbie) tall, thin and no curves, probably be as productive as a heat wave daughter too.

I would also guess that we would be closer with show cattle and commercial cattle if the commercial guy paid attention to the look as well as EPD's and show cattle paid attention to EPD's as well as the look.

I agree with you for the most part but I won't take a Clydesdale to a horse race, or a half ton to the truck pulls. I want to at least be in position to compete, not win but compete.

 

[iowa hawkeyes]

thanks for taking all the heat VCC. I've been busy at our county fair (showing our hairy cattle :roll: ) the past while. I get irritated by posters griping about the show cattle industry. If you don't like it, don't come to this topic. I don't like horses so I never read the horse section. There will always be someone that pushes the envelope, even with slick sheared cattle. GET OVER IT.

 

[3waycross]

thanks for taking all the heat VCC. I've been busy at our county fair (showing our hairy cattle :roll: ) the past while. I get irritated by posters griping about the show cattle industry. If you don't like it, don't come to this topic. I don't like horses so I never read the horse section. There will always be someone that pushes the envelope, even with slick sheared cattle. GET OVER IT.

So exactly how do you characterize the show cattle industry. Coming from someone who's kids showed what looks like some real nice real world cattle I would have said that your family was a very nice example of what I had been saying. What's really incredible is that without knowing it or for sure meaning to you have made my point perfectly. There fore I will quote YOU

one more pic of the Heat Wave steer. He weighed 1390 and got second in class behind the eventually champion steer. Daughter learned a good life lesson on this one. He was the hairiest calf by far, and I think she thought she was going to win but he just didn't get the job done that day.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO why not just eliminate the hair and make it about the Calf and the kid. That's my only real gripe. I just chose to try to be a bit more constructive about than you. Since this is a free forum and we still have free speech I will just go ahead and voice my opinion even if it displeases you.

And I really do want an explanation of the Show cattle industry Whatever that actually is. I personally have nothing against breed shows but even there it gets to be more about the beauty pagent thing than trying to display real world functional examples of the breed.

BTW I could just get over it but I would much rather engage you or VCC in a dialogue that might enlighten not just me but others here who aren't as fond of arguing as I am. For what it's worth I really enjoyed seeing your kids showing Herefords and that grey composite steer. It's the Heat Wave BS that makes me want to throw up every time I see those kind of Worthless 1400 lb poodles.

 

[chippie]

Our fair went to slick sheered steers last year. Our fair is at the end of September, a very hot and humid time of year here.

At first there were protests (mostly by the Ag teachers) that it would knock out a lot of kids from showing because a slick sheer type steer costs more money that getting a haired steer of equal quality. Other protests were that a kid would not work with a slick sheer animal like he or she would with a haired animal.

Anyhoo, the show went well. The kids still had to work with the steers just as much as if they had hair to keep the skin and hair healthy. There were not a bunch of trim chutes taking up space and the stress level of getting ready for the show was greatly reduced.
The best thing was that it was easier to keep the cattle cool. They weren't panting and drooling from the heat like when it was a hair show.

There were no comments from the public about the "poor cows are so hot!" It is always a worry whether or not Animal Rights Activists should decide to show up and cause a fuss over nothing.

What was amusing was that some of the people who protested the change the loudest have refrigerated rooms - walk in coolers.