Converting From Jiggs to Bahia

[icandoit]

Bear with me, I've had a couple of beers. I have 25 acres of Jiggs grass and was thinking of going to Bahia. Is there anything that I should know about converting to Bahia or is it impossible to actually convert to Bahia. Does the soil need any other nutrients to convert? That is to say, more acidic, less acidic. We live in a not-so- wet arid zone. Good years , about 25 inches(guessing here), bad year, less than 10. Weeds are a problem but can be controlled with good herbicides and pasture management.
If I left anything out, shoot me, I live about 60 miles s/w of Austin. What a coinkidink, my lst name is Austin

Anyu help would be appreciated, and of course, thanks for the replies.

Dick

 

[Campground Cattle]

Poor man's coastal is hard to beat. I love bahia.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You call it a weed we call it feed.

 

[bob g]

Bahia is about the only grass that has stayed green and growing in this drought we are in.....I like it, cows don't love it, but for the moment it is all they got.

 

[Jogeephus]

Only problem I see is getting rid of bmuda. That can be troublsome. I'd begin with 1 gal or roundup to acre mixed with ammonium sulphate as a kicker and maybe an anitfoam agent. I've seen it take several applications to completely eradicate it though and this was done over several months.

 

[txag]

it would take more than a couple of beers to make me want to convert from jiggs to bahia.

but if that's what you really want to do......just do nothing. if there's any bahia in the area (neighbors' pastures, bar ditches), it won't be long before it finds its way to your field. and when it does, it won't be long before it takes over the jiggs. and when it does, it won't be long until your hay isn't worth as much.

 

[HAY MAKER]

icandoit,maybe you need to manage that jiggs a little better,its a popular grass around here and not cheap to get established,I bale some for a neighbor,good stuff..................good luck
PS if you are 60 miles southwest of Austin,you're in jiggs country,being able to withstand a drought and bounce back is one of the bermudas strong point.

 

[MikeC]

Bahia is popular because of it's low maintenance. Withstands low PH levels and dry weather very well.

The downside is low yields and a comparatively poor quality.

It's hard to make bahia hay that is over 8-10% protein, where the Jiggs will produce almost twice the tonnage at a much higher percentage of protein with less ADF.

How many have actually had any bahia hay tested?

Protein supplementing all winter is not my idea of getting by cheaper.

 

[Caustic Burno]

As a Cattleman I respected use to say if the cows can't stay fat on my grass and hay I am changing the cow not the grass.

 

[Jogeephus]

You know, bahia is called the "poor man's grass" here. I don't think of it that way cause the backbone of my operation centers around it. I view it as the "working man's grass" cause it works nonstop for nearly 8 months out of the year while the hybrid bermudas kick tail for only a few months. What I have been striving for is a balance between these. Haven't quite figured out what that is yet but after this years drought I respect bahia more than ever.

 

[hurleyjd]

If you are bound and determined to ditch the Jiggs and go with Bahai. Then you might look at the Tifton 9 Bahai. It makes more forage than the pensacola.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Paraguay is great also if you can afford the seed.

 

[novatech]

it would take more than a couple of beers to make me want to convert from jiggs to bahia.

but if that's what you really want to do......just do nothing. if there's any bahia in the area (neighbors' pastures, bar ditches), it won't be long before it finds its way to your field. and when it does, it won't be long before it takes over the jiggs. and when it does, it won't be long until your hay isn't worth as much.

I could not agree more. icandoit says he wants to kill off the jiggs that are serviveing. It made it through the drought. So why kill it? As far as bahia goes it may servive but from what I have seen it still will not produce during a drought. After a drought it will come back but then so will jiggs up to a point.
Survival of the fittest, where this is concerned.

I have plenty of both bahia and coastal and a little tif 85. All faired about the same under drought conditions. All came back after we got rain.

 

[Caustic Burno]

it would take more than a couple of beers to make me want to convert from jiggs to bahia.

but if that's what you really want to do......just do nothing. if there's any bahia in the area (neighbors' pastures, bar ditches), it won't be long before it finds its way to your field. and when it does, it won't be long before it takes over the jiggs. and when it does, it won't be long until your hay isn't worth as much.

I could not agree more. icandoit says he wants to kill off the jiggs that are serviveing. It made it through the drought. So why kill it? As far as bahia goes it may servive but from what I have seen it still will not produce during a drought. After a drought it will come back but then so will jiggs up to a point.
Survival of the fittest, where this is concerned.

I have plenty of both bahia and coastal and a little tif 85. All faired about the same under drought conditions. All came back after we got rain.

Grass comes at a cost, regions vary greatly in Texas by just a few miles. Once had a fellow ask what is the best grass for cows. That was a simple one, the grass that grows best in your enviroment with the lowest maintaience cost.
This is almost as bad as the color and breed arguement.
I have been down this road I have tried every variety of grass you can think of. I spent a small fortune trying to keep coastal healhty and growing and still failed. If bahia grows best in you area run bahia if coastal, or fescue grows best run them. You will go broke chasing the next best grass just like cattle.

 

[icandoit]

Thanks to everyone that posted a response. I am just getting ideas is all I'm doing. This sounds like an idea that just won't fit into my budget. No, I don't have a crystal ball to see if we are going to be in a drought this summer. As I type this, it's raining, not hard, but raining just the same. With fertilizer and herbicide costs going through the roof, I just got this idea from my pea-brained head. I know Bahia is low maintanence, but still you have throw fert. and herbicide at it. I knew the pros on this board would either give a thumbs up or down on this idea and it looks like the thumbs down is winning.

Thanks Again
Dick

 

[txag]

Here's a good article on Jigs Bermuda that Novatech sent me:

http://southwestfarmpress.com/mag/farmi ... _headache/

and some more info:


http://commodities.caes.uga.edu/fieldcr ... july02.pdf

it's pdf so may be slow to load but here are some highlights (there are pretty good charts on page 3 & 4):

"Note that hybrid bermudagrass produced approximately 30% more forage per unit of water than common bermudagrass or bahiagrass. This demonstrates the value of elite forage varieties even when environmental conditions are suboptimal."

"Several producers have suggested that bahiagrass is more productive than bermudagrass in drought situations because bahiagrass appears to green up more rapidly following a rain. This rapid green up can be misleading.........This Georgia study showed that hybrid bermudagrass utilized rainfall more efficiently than bahiagrass during a dry summer. This efficiency may be related to the deeper roots of Coastal bermudagrass or its higher yield potential."

http://harris-cnty.tamu.edu/walker/ag/l ... page11.htm

and some highlights from this one:

"Bahia is not as drought tolerant as Coastal bermudagrass because its heavier root system is not as well distributed through the soil as bermuda roots. Bahia will survive limited drought, but makes little growth when ample moisture is not available. Due to its low growth habit, bahia is more adapted for grazing than hay production. Approximately 40 percent of it's growth is in the lower four inches."

"Bahiagrass.........is commonly grown on those poor soils when the stockmen cannot or do not wish to use sufficient fertilizer for good production from bermuda."

http://overton.tamu.edu/evers/Seeded%20 ... rasses.pdf

http://forages.tamu.edu/PDF/scs2001-12.pdf

 

[novatech]

it would take more than a couple of beers to make me want to convert from jiggs to bahia.

but if that's what you really want to do......just do nothing. if there's any bahia in the area (neighbors' pastures, bar ditches), it won't be long before it finds its way to your field. and when it does, it won't be long before it takes over the jiggs. and when it does, it won't be long until your hay isn't worth as much.

I could not agree more. icandoit says he wants to kill off the jiggs that are serviveing. It made it through the drought. So why kill it? As far as bahia goes it may servive but from what I have seen it still will not produce during a drought. After a drought it will come back but then so will jiggs up to a point.
Survival of the fittest, where this is concerned.

I have plenty of both bahia and coastal and a little tif 85. All faired about the same under drought conditions. All came back after we got rain.

Grass comes at a cost, regions vary greatly in Texas by just a few miles. Once had a fellow ask what is the best grass for cows. That was a simple one, the grass that grows best in your enviroment with the lowest maintaience cost.
This is almost as bad as the color and breed arguement.
I have been down this road I have tried every variety of grass you can think of. I spent a small fortune trying to keep coastal healhty and growing and still failed. If bahia grows best in you area run bahia if coastal, or fescue grows best run them. You will go broke chasing the next best grass just like cattle.

Don,t get me wrong on this. If I had a field of bahia I would not plant bremuda. Why? I don,t own the land. It would not pay out in the term of my lease. In general I will take what is there and improve the quality. I will plant some winter grazeing or clover to get the nitrogen. I also find that many of these grasses have very high fert. requirements. Granted they will pay out in production and nutrient value but at what cost and how long is the pay out?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Here's a good article on Jigs Bermuda that Novatech sent me:

http://southwestfarmpress.com/mag/farmi ... _headache/

and some more info:


http://commodities.caes.uga.edu/fieldcr ... july02.pdf

it's pdf so may be slow to load but here are some highlights (there are pretty good charts on page 3 & 4):

"Note that hybrid bermudagrass produced approximately 30% more forage per unit of water than common bermudagrass or bahiagrass. This demonstrates the value of elite forage varieties even when environmental conditions are suboptimal."

"Several producers have suggested that bahiagrass is more productive than bermudagrass in drought situations because bahiagrass appears to green up more rapidly following a rain. This rapid green up can be misleading.........This Georgia study showed that hybrid bermudagrass utilized rainfall more efficiently than bahiagrass during a dry summer. This efficiency may be related to the deeper roots of Coastal bermudagrass or its higher yield potential."

http://harris-cnty.tamu.edu/walker/ag/l ... page11.htm

and some highlights from this one:

"Bahia is not as drought tolerant as Coastal bermudagrass because its heavier root system is not as well distributed through the soil as bermuda roots. Bahia will survive limited drought, but makes little growth when ample moisture is not available. Due to its low growth habit, bahia is more adapted for grazing than hay production. Approximately 40 percent of it's growth is in the lower four inches."

"Bahiagrass.........is commonly grown on those poor soils when the stockmen cannot or do not wish to use sufficient fertilizer for good production from bermuda."

http://overton.tamu.edu/evers/Seeded%20 ... rasses.pdf

http://forages.tamu.edu/PDF/scs2001-12.pdf

Heck if yields more I would never get it baled, have to run the baler in low gear the hay is so thick.

 

[txag]

Heck if yields more I would never get it baled, have to run the baler in low gear the hay is so thick.

Really?

Ask again about May or June as I am putting in a five acre test plot of Red River........................
That will be about my luck as well. If I want to grow it won't if I don't I have the prettiest stand you have ever seen,
I was trying it to see if I could improve hay yields. Seen a guys pasture north of me with it and it looked good.

I have tried and tried to grow coastal because it yields so much better than bahia. .......
That is one of the main reasons I am experimenting with sorhgums and millet in trying to improve hay yields.

See you have quality grass you would sing a different tune with bahia as it is one of the least efficient on utilization of fertilizer

I have tried Coastal till I am blue in the face, I have to much bottom land and it stays to wet for coastal.

I have two leased hay fields just to show you the difference one is coastal the other bahia. The coastal will yield 6 rolls of hay to the acre versus the bahias 3.

Currently have a test plot of Red River crab grass to see how it does, looking to improve yields.

Looking into planting Sorgum-Sudan or Haygrazer 3 in the future to get improved hay yields in this drought from hades.
Any tricks or tips on getting a good stand and experience as hay.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Heck if yields more I would never get it baled, have to run the baler in low gear the hay is so thick.

Really?

Ask again about May or June as I am putting in a five acre test plot of Red River........................
That will be about my luck as well. If I want to grow it won't if I don't I have the prettiest stand you have ever seen,
I was trying it to see if I could improve hay yields. Seen a guys pasture north of me with it and it looked good.

I have tried and tried to grow coastal because it yields so much better than bahia. .......
That is one of the main reasons I am experimenting with sorhgums and millet in trying to improve hay yields.

See you have quality grass you would sing a different tune with bahia as it is one of the least efficient on utilization of fertilizer

I have tried Coastal till I am blue in the face, I have to much bottom land and it stays to wet for coastal.

I have two leased hay fields just to show you the difference one is coastal the other bahia. The coastal will yield 6 rolls of hay to the acre versus the bahias 3.

Currently have a test plot of Red River crab grass to see how it does, looking to improve yields.

Looking into planting Sorgum-Sudan or Haygrazer 3 in the future to get improved hay yields in this drought from hades.
Any tricks or tips on getting a good stand and experience as hay.

Now thats funny I wondered how long it take for you to post back on our age old arguement.