Making pasture from clear cut forest.

[Mark Reynolds]

Oh dear! Uprooting stumps, salt........hard for me to consider in terms of thinking about resource concerns. Converting thick, brushy clearcuts to pasture isn't something I consider conservation work much but I have been involved with and seen. For starters, where are you? It looks like those are doug fir so I'd say the northwest.......long rainy fall/winter/spring?

The brush encroachment will be one thing to deal with. Soil health and pH will be your next thing to consider and what will grow on what you have or are able to create. Not much desirable grass will grow in acidic pine needle duff, which is what you have right now.

 

[Ebenezer]

Oh dear! Uprooting stumps, salt........hard for me to consider in terms of thinking about resource concerns. Converting thick, brushy clearcuts to pasture isn't something I consider conservation work much but I have been involved with and seen. For starters, where are you? It looks like those are doug fir so I'd say the northwest.......long rainy fall/winter/spring?

The brush encroachment will be one thing to deal with. Soil health and pH will be your next thing to consider and what will grow on what you have or are able to create. Not much desirable grass will grow in acidic pine needle duff, which is what you have right now.

Come on now Mark, they are pushing back the wilderness! It only takes costly repairs on a few tractors and rebuilding/replacing some equipment to find out the costs/price/valuation of leaving a stump. Going back to the old ways with rooting hogs is right out of Mother Earth News. Ah, the good ol' days. But how do you keep the piggies home? Build a hogwire fence ASAP? Can you do that with costs, stumps...What folks forget is the quick western migration of settlers in the USA due to soil depletion or destruction along with the loss of the other resources such as timber and wildlife back in the good ol' days.

Conservation is the wise use of natural resources so they want to wisely grow livestock! That's good.

#1 issue is soil erosion control. #2 issue is soil erosion control. Then you get into stepping towards climax forages as in land prep, soil amendments... Still in the final stages of this here on 100+/- acres. Nothing like having fun.

 

[Dave]

I recognized the Doug Fir. I had about 2 acres in Western Washington which I logged in 1984. This was 2nd growth 3' + in diameter. The old growth had been sometime between 1905 and 1910. There was still a few of those old stumps around. The OP said pasture and nothing about making a hay field. Cows will walk around stumps just fine. If the budget is limited the last thing to worry about is the stumps. When I sold my place 33 years after logging there were still stumps in that field but it grew good grass. Very little of the total area was taken up by stumps and a lot of cows had walked around those stumps. Just pile the bigger slash and burn it. Get a fence around it and toss out some grass seed.

 

[kenny thomas]

I will speak for my area which is almost 100% hardwood timber. Here if you can buy land already in grass it is probably cheaper than converting it.
Edit, almost every hardwood stump will sprout and grow new trees. Many even the roots will sprout. So spraying often is required.

 

[greybeard]

They naturally rot after a couple of years.

Yeah, we've all heard that line before.....

There's this thing called lightered pine (pine knots) they can last up to a century...

 

[Silver]

I've cleared a few acres. Coniferous roots last a long time. Because they are close to the surface they seem to dry out and never rot. Willow crowns as well.
I've got a few acres that was logged a year ago that will never make hay field because of slope and rocks. I think I'll spray out the suckers next year, broadcast grass seed, then burn it for a year or two. I have the yellow equipment to really do a job of it but I'd like to try something less time consuming and costly considering it won't be a hay field.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I will speak for my area which is almost 100% hardwood timber. Here if you can buy land already in grass it is probably cheaper than converting it.
Edit, almost every hardwood stump will sprout and grow new trees. Many even the roots will sprout. So spraying often is required.

I've cleared a few acres. Coniferous roots last a long time. Because they are close to the surface they seem to dry out and never rot. Willow crowns as well.
I've got a few acres that was logged a year ago that will never make hay field because of slope and rocks. I think I'll spray out the suckers next year, broadcast grass seed, then burn it for a year or two. I have the yellow equipment to really do a job of it but I'd like to try something less time consuming and costly considering it won't be a hay field.

Time, monetary expense in fuel and wear and tear on equipment (saws, tractors, seeders) infrastructure (fence), habitat loss, availability of land already converted are all reasons to not convert forest land. I left off return on investment. Now if you are looking to utilize idle time, maybe read a good book?

 

[Silver]

Time, monetary expense in fuel and wear and tear on equipment (saws, tractors, seeders) infrastructure (fence), habitat loss, availability of land already converted are all reasons to not convert forest land. I left off return on investment. Now if you are looking to utilize idle time, maybe read a good book?

If we hadn't t taken the time to carve this place out of the forest there would be no ranch here. There are plenty of good reasons to clear depending on your situation.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

If we hadn't t taken the time to carve this place out of the forest there would be no ranch here. There are plenty of good reasons to clear depending on your situation.

There are. there tends to be so much that has already been done much of the time, but there are valid reasons, and I've been involved with those efforts in the past.

 

[kenny thomas]

If we hadn't t taken the time to carve this place out of the forest there would be no ranch here. There are plenty of good reasons to clear depending on your situation.

Silver, any open land in Virginia was carved from the forest. They grew tobacco until the ground wouldn't support it any longer and they kept moving westward and cleared again. Different time now here. Now I'm seeing more land going back to forest. Especially the steeper land.

 

[Silver]

Silver, any open land in Virginia was carved from the forest. They grew tobacco until the ground wouldn't support it any longer and they kept moving westward and cleared again. Different time now here. Now I'm seeing more land going back to forest. Especially the steeper land.

I think if one studies the return on investment for clearing land (good land) it can work out rather favourably. But you need to take a longer view. Land cleared today will be worth considerably more in 25 years than it would be if left raw. Add in that timber prices are excellent right now. If a plot of land has good merchantable timber on it the timber can more than pay for putting it into production.

 

[Travlr]

I think if one studies the return on investment for clearing land (good land) it can work out rather favourably. But you need to take a longer view. Land cleared today will be worth considerably more in 25 years than it would be if left raw. Add in that timber prices are excellent right now. If a plot of land has good merchantable timber on it the timber can more than pay for putting it into production.

And if you are discriminating about what you cut and what you can leave behind it's possible to get future cuttings and/or have a wood lot mixed with pasture to provide some shade and still have decent grass.

 

[Silver]

And if you are discriminating about what you cut and what you can leave behind it's possible to get future cuttings and/or have a wood lot mixed with pasture to provide some shade and still have decent grass.

There are a lot of good things that happen between the trees

 

[kenny thomas]

I think if one studies the return on investment for clearing land (good land) it can work out rather favourably. But you need to take a longer view. Land cleared today will be worth considerably more in 25 years than it would be if left raw. Add in that timber prices are excellent right now. If a plot of land has good merchantable timber on it the timber can more than pay for putting it into production.

Again lots different here. Except for white oak for whiskey barrels most timber wont pay the cost of cutting it right now. I worked forestry for 38 years and its cheaper than in the early 80's. Cant give pulpwood away free. So all expenses of clearing is on the landowner.
I do agree it can make the property worth more in the future. But in normal times our hardwood will gain about 8-10% in value per year with no extra expenses. This isnt normal times.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

I cleared about 35 acres and I wish I hadn't LOL.
It was very expensive and time consuming. But we already owned the land and couldn't find established pasture. I got about $2,000 an acre for the timber on it
By the time it was cleared, burnt, stumps rolled out, fertilized and planted I had about $7,000 an acre in it.
Just the amount of riprap and hydroseeding that I had to buy for erosion control was incredible.
Building pastures out of forest is crazy but doing it in the mountains is even worse.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Timber market is in the toilet currently around here. I have about 100 acres of mixed hardwood to clear off but I'm waiting for timber prices to hopefully rebound a little.

Where I live there really isn't good timber as the soils are marginal and our growing season is short by the cold lake. Go inland 10 miles and things are totally different and good hard maple ground can earn a good return thru selective thinning.

 

[Silver]

A truck load of spruce trees last year was north of $5,000 CAD. In decent spruce 2-3 loads per acre is achievable. Pulp wood (aspen and poplar here) was about $300 per load so almost $1,000 per acre in decent wood.
For the money I find it easier to tip the aspen / poplar over and windrow it. That way the roots come out with the tree.

 

[kenny thomas]

A truck load of spruce trees last year was north of $5,000 CAD. In decent spruce 2-3 loads per acre is achievable. Pulp wood (aspen and poplar here) was about $300 per load so almost $1,000 per acre in decent wood.
For the money I find it easier to tip the aspen / poplar over and windrow it. That way the roots come out with the tree.

I like the tipping it over first. Do you still salvage the logs and pulpwood.

 

[Silver]

I like the tipping it over first. Do you still salvage the logs and pulpwood.

If I were to clear any more pulp wood I would not salvage it for the price of it. Coniferous is too valuable not to salvage.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Most softwood isn't worth squat around here and never was. Only softwood worth anything is plantation red pine, and that ground isn't much good for any sort of pasture.

This is primarly hardwood country. Some of the most valuable hard maple in the world comes from this region. We grow some of the straightest and whitest sugar maple of anyplace.