City Guy wants to start a fight

[City Guy]

OK, I want to start one of those "Stupid City Guy tries to tell us how to run our business" fights!! I enjoy them so much. (I also enjoy poking wasp nests with my finger and loosening lug nuts with my teeth.)

I go to shows and sales where cattle are being led by straps attached to halters and I see more trouble than co-operation from the cow. I keep thinking there must be something better and maybe I have found it. You tell me.

Leading by a strap requires the showman to be in one of the two worst places one can be when interacting with prey--in front, in their blind spot or in front of one eye. The cow is naturally frightened by that. Now suppose we get rid of the strap and replace it with a stick, oh say 3-4 feet long and about the diameter of a household broom stick. Long enough to allow the showman to stand in what Bud Williams calls "the safest place to be" when working with animals, just behind the withers. From there the leader cannot be kicked with either of the cow's feet and is out of the path of a head swing or a tail swat.

Now the difficult question. Will the cow respond not to the tug of a strap, but to the push of the stick? I think that with some practice the showman and the cow can learn to work together and develop a set of pushes and pulls that will get the cow to go peacefully in any direction and still be shown off to advantage.

Must be something wrong with this, I just don't know what it is!

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I have never shown cattle by standing in front of them, or behind where you can get kicked.
So I guess I don't see how attempting to lead them with a 4' stick would get you anywhere, or allow any type of control over the animal.
But hey if it works for you, then that's great.



Also in one of your past life's I don't recall you being a "dumb city guy". Owner of a ranch in Hawaii, yes...

 

[City Guy]

What are you talking about?

 

[Kingfisher]

Townie me thinks you need a pig...

 

[Nesikep]

in that position you have NO control over the animals head, and controlling the head is how you control the rest of it. The problem isn't just that they don't want to move, it's that WHEN they move, they'll go full steam ahead.

I think it's just a matter of training, and spending enough time doing it. Now I haven't put my cows in a show situation, but my halter broke ones lead with a piece of bale twine fashioned into a halter and 1 finger

 

[M-5]

I suggest you get off your azz and go experience it. You can talk think dream argue imagine or what ever else you Yankee city folks want to. But until you get a dog in the fight you will never be able to rationalize what needs to be done or how its done. People were showing calves long before your brother ran down your mamma's leg.

 

[Alan]

Just my two cents, I hate trying to halter train a calf and I have only tried once. I have halter trained plenty of foals easily using a halter and a second loop of rope around their butt. Fairly easy and effective but do you think that would work on a calf? Heck no. Putting pressure on the halter and releasing the pressure when they stepped foreword...... Got tired of pulling on the halter waiting for them to step forward. I know plenty of cattle are halter trained, I just don't have the patience or skill for it. :lol:

 

[Alan]

I suggest you get off your azz and go experience it. You can talk think dream argue imagine or what ever else you Yankee city folks want to. But until you get a dog in the fight you will never be able to rationalize what needs to be done or how its done. People were showing calves long before your brother ran down your mamma's leg.

Darrel why bring "Yankee" into this?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I suggest you get off your azz and go experience it. You can talk think dream argue imagine or what ever else you Yankee city folks want to. But until you get a dog in the fight you will never be able to rationalize what needs to be done or how its done. People were showing calves long before your brother ran down your mamma's leg.

Darrel why bring "Yankee" into this?

Why bring his brother into it as well? Yuck!

 

[Alan]

I suggest you get off your azz and go experience it. You can talk think dream argue imagine or what ever else you Yankee city folks want to. But until you get a dog in the fight you will never be able to rationalize what needs to be done or how its done. People were showing calves long before your brother ran down your mamma's leg.

Darrel why bring "Yankee" into this?

Why bring his brother into it as well? Yuck!

:lol: :lol: I was talking to his other brother Darrel...... Nice sweater!

 

[City Guy]

Thanx M5 you're so cute when you're mad! And mannerly too!

 

[M-5]

You started the fight, I'm only participating.

 

[Nesikep]

Just my two cents, I hate trying to halter train a calf and I have only tried once. I have halter trained plenty of foals easily using a halter and a second loop of rope around their butt. Fairly easy and effective but do you think that would work on a calf? Heck no. Putting pressure on the halter and releasing the pressure when they stepped foreword...... Got tired of pulling on the halter waiting for them to step forward. I know plenty of cattle are halter trained, I just don't have the patience or skill for it. :lol:

Just gotta pull harder.. and the destination is very important.. if they get the idea that you're bringing them to some place better, they'll catch on quick and start following nicely.. it's the only reason I can lead my 1500 lb bull

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

OK, I want to start one of those "Stupid City Guy tries to tell us how to run our business" fights!! I enjoy them so much. (I also enjoy poking wasp nests with my finger and loosening lug nuts with my teeth.)

I go to shows and sales where cattle are being led by straps attached to halters and I see more trouble than co-operation from the cow. I keep thinking there must be something better and maybe I have found it. You tell me.

Leading by a strap requires the showman to be in one of the two worst places one can be when interacting with prey--in front, in their blind spot or in front of one eye. The cow is naturally frightened by that. Now suppose we get rid of the strap and replace it with a stick, oh say 3-4 feet long and about the diameter of a household broom stick. Long enough to allow the showman to stand in what Bud Williams calls "the safest place to be" when working with animals, just behind the withers. From there the leader cannot be kicked with either of the cow's feet and is out of the path of a head swing or a tail swat.

Now the difficult question. Will the cow respond not to the tug of a strap, but to the push of the stick? I think that with some practice the showman and the cow can learn to work together and develop a set of pushes and pulls that will get the cow to go peacefully in any direction and still be shown off to advantage.

Must be something wrong with this, I just don't know what it is!

There are no words....

 

[dun]

Properly trained, the operative word being "properly" they will respond to voice commands and respond immediately. If they couldn;t be trained to lead easily, how do you suppose you could get oxen to work with no contact with the drover.

 

[City Guy]

Nesikep; I can't argue with that, you obviously have the touch. WOW

 

[inyati13]

Assuming you are starting with cattle that have demonstrated docility traits in their ancestry, halter breaking is a function of effort. Best results are obtained by beginning at an early age, even a couple weeks old. Work them at least a couple times a week. It is a good time to groom the calves and tend to their needs such as worming, cleaning and combing, giving treats, etc. Don't wait too long, after they get to 350 to 400 pounds, you can experience trouble maintaining control.

You stated: I go to shows and sales where cattle are being led by straps attached to halters and I see more trouble than co-operation from the cow.

I have not observed the difficulty you have with maintaining control. They are not much different than controlling a dog or horse. It takes effort and dedication. I have found it enjoyable and rewarding. I like the contact and pleasure of grooming and petting them. IMO, once broke to halter, most cattle enjoy the attention and treatment that goes with halter breaking.

City Guy stated: Leading by a strap requires the showman to be in one of the two worst places one can be when interacting with prey--in front, in their blind spot or in front of one eye. That is non-sense. There is no prey-predator relationship. In fact, approaching a cow from the rear is more likely to stimulate a prey-predator reaction. Working cattle to the halter is more than just leading them. A sense of trust is established. That trust transcends the halter. It goes over into the pasture, when loading, etc.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Wow.... just wow.
When you halter break a calf, in the end, you end up with a wonderful relationship with that animal. The animal learns to trust the person on the other end. It is no different than training a dog to walk on a leash.
When my kids train their calves, by the time they walk into the show ring, the calf is typically able to read their body language and will stop in the perfect formation just on the language of the child. Halter training a calf is just like halter training a foal, if you start them when they are 30 days old or less. It becomes automatic.
We put a halter on the calves by the time they are 30 days old, and tie them next to their dams for a few hours while we drop hay for the cow so all is relaxed. We do this a few times before weaning, and at weaning time the process goes pretty easily. Persistence pays off! After a week, the calves are greeting us at the gate, trying to put their heads in the halters so they can come out and get their grain. I doubt there is any predator thinking going on!
City Guy, walk around your cows all the time, and you become the prey to them! At least at our farm that is the case! They associate us with food.... and jump us when we go out!