Chopping Hay

[Wisteria Farms]

Hi everyone! Can any of you tell me the most economical way to chop hay withouth spending a fortune?

I wondered about buying a chopper/shredder (the type you use in the yard for small tree branches)... am I crazy?? As for usage, I would be putting approx. 2 large squares (the big ones) through it per day. I usually hand-feed these... its a pain in the butt but it saves on waste so I figured if I'm standing out there feeding these anyway, why not chop them and get more benefit.

Thanks so much for any advice you can give...

 

[hillsdown]

I wouldn't chop up squares unless they are really crappy hay bales. You would lose all the good stuff, especially the leaves .

 

[Wisteria Farms]

I've been reading articles lately that it is better. That they utilized much less digestive energy breaking down the smaller 2" pieces rather than chew, chew, chewing long stems and that they process it better so that more of the protien is digested. I thought any lost leaves would just go into the bunk along with the chopped pieces... thanks so much... I welcome anyone's thoughts on this...

 

[hillsdown]

What kind of hay are you feeding them WF ?

 

[ChrisB]

Can you rent a hay grinder for a day and grind enough for the winter at once? I think the price to rent one here is $150 per day if I'm not mistaken.

 

[TexasBred]

I've been reading articles lately that it is better. That they utilized much less digestive energy breaking down the smaller 2" pieces rather than chew, chew, chewing long stems and that they process it better so that more of the protien is digested. I thought any lost leaves would just go into the bunk along with the chopped pieces... thanks so much... I welcome anyone's thoughts on this...

Only benefits I can see would possibly be less wasted hay to deal with, otherwise, the cow processes long pieces just like those that are cut short. Differences in energy used would be small. The nutrients in the hay is what is important and you can't change those. Eating anything for a cow is little more than getting something wet enough to swallow.

 

[dun]

I've been reading articles lately that it is better. That they utilized much less digestive energy breaking down the smaller 2" pieces rather than chew, chew, chewing long stems and that they process it better so that more of the protien is digested. I thought any lost leaves would just go into the bunk along with the chopped pieces... thanks so much... I welcome anyone's thoughts on this...

Only benefits I can see would possibly be less wasted hay to deal with, otherwise, the cow processes long pieces just like those that are cut short. Differences in energy used would be small. The nutrients in the hay is what is important and you can't change those. Eating anything for a cow is little more than getting something wet enough to swallow.

During the winter you want that roughage so that it generates heat during digestion. It was once touted that the ideal was 8 hours a day of eating/grazing/ eight hours a day of rumenating and 8 hours a day of sleeping. Obviously not 8 hour stretches of any of that in a row. Seem that would also cut down on time for mischief.

 

[bigbull338]

you dont need 1 of those big grinders to grind your hay.all you need is a JD or NH grinder mixer.an you can grind the big bales in those.an you can grind 2 or 3 tons at a time.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

So. Ive essentially got more people telling me its a waste of time and that processing the larger pieces is actually healthier (via producing heat during digestion). Dang it, I wish it were more "cut and dry" than this... so how come so many do it?

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Just remembered something else... may have been part of this same article about (don't laugh) taking a cup of cow poop and putting it in water and then running it through a fine strainer. You look at the residual "stuff" and it'll show you how the cow is processing its roughage... I want to say this was the same article about chopping hay but they claimed that the poo of cows eating UNCHOPPED hay would show a lot of large pieces passing completely through the digestive tract and coming out whole (6" or longer stems).... and the poo of cows eating chopped hay wouldn't show NEARLY as much coming out the other end... thereby proving that more was actually digested. I certainly am NOT going to go to the expense of chopping if its just a big waste of time but does anyone have any further thoughts on all this?? Just trying to find ways to stretch my hay dollar! Thanks

 

[novatech]

A couple of years ago we were in drought, not as bad as this years but still drought. A couple of counties away a cattleman was buying cattle taking advantage of the prices because of sell outs. He bought hay, had it tested, ground it and added the proper protein and mineral. It was fed in bunks just like any feed lot system. The man made money.
Given this, regardless of the research it would lead me to believe you have a feasible idea, especially when you consider the grass efficiency your breed of cattle are known for.
If one considers the way microbes work in a compost pile it is a known fact that chopped up leaves compost faster than those that are not. This is because of more surface area is being exposed for the microbes. I see no difference in a cows rumen system. It is microbial action that makes the nutrition available to the cow.

 

[TexasBred]

So. Ive essentially got more people telling me its a waste of time and that processing the larger pieces is actually healthier (via producing heat during digestion). Dang it, I wish it were more "cut and dry" than this... so how come so many do it?

"so many doiing it"???? Beef cow folks?? If you were feeding a Total Mixed Ration and needing a very good mix on a half dozen different ingredients being blended into the mix (hay included) then YES I'd say grind the hay. If you're just feeding hay only all you're doing is adding expense and labor to what should ge a relatively simply job of putting out hay.

 

[dun]

So. Ive essentially got more people telling me its a waste of time and that processing the larger pieces is actually healthier (via producing heat during digestion). Dang it, I wish it were more "cut and dry" than this... so how come so many do it?

"so many doiing it"???? Beef cow folks?? If you were feeding a Total Mixed Ration and needing a very good mix on a half dozen different ingredients being blended into the mix (hay included) then YES I'd say grind the hay. If you're just feeding hay only all you're doing is adding expense and labor to what should ge a relatively simply job of putting out hay.

What TB said!

 

[rjbovine]

I dont think the smaller chipper/sheader would work with hay. I've been using one on ear corn it works good . Hay would be to much . Neighbor grinds hay in his portable feed grinder..Mixs it with corn. May be some one close by could grind for you . Not sure where in so. il. your at ? Also have local feed mill in my area that might help .

 

[Wisteria Farms]

So. Ive essentially got more people telling me its a waste of time and that processing the larger pieces is actually healthier (via producing heat during digestion). Dang it, I wish it were more "cut and dry" than this... so how come so many do it?

"so many doiing it"???? Beef cow folks?? If you were feeding a Total Mixed Ration and needing a very good mix on a half dozen different ingredients being blended into the mix (hay included) then YES I'd say grind the hay. If you're just feeding hay only all you're doing is adding expense and labor to what should ge a relatively simply job of putting out hay.

What TB said!

OK, PLEASE don't let this start any kind of argument... but think of it this way...
For those of you that DO feed grain... why do you crack your corn? Wouldn't you just feed whole kernel? This is the same question you are posing to me about the hay.
I'm assuming cracked corn aids in digestion... not as much found in the residual POOP. I'm thinking this is the same thing with the hay. Yes, you are still feeding hay whether it is 2" long or 8" long but smaller pieces (so they say) is utilizing it better... more digested/less coming out the back end.
I'm not saying this is true... just trying to do the research so I can decide if this is something I want to try doing. And no, I'm not currently feeding a mixed ration, HOWEVER if I thought I could stretch my feed dollar in my small herd by mixing chopped hay with, say DDG, etc then I would.

 

[dun]

The difference in nutrients digested from corn between whole and chopped is usaully considered too little to make chopping it cost effective.

 

[TexasBred]

Just remembered something else... may have been part of this same article about (don't laugh) taking a cup of cow poop and putting it in water and then running it through a fine strainer. You look at the residual "stuff" and it'll show you how the cow is processing its roughage... I want to say this was the same article about chopping hay but they claimed that the poo of cows eating UNCHOPPED hay would show a lot of large pieces passing completely through the digestive tract and coming out whole (6" or longer stems).... and the poo of cows eating chopped hay wouldn't show NEARLY as much coming out the other end... thereby proving that more was actually digested. I certainly am NOT going to go to the expense of chopping if its just a big waste of time but does anyone have any further thoughts on all this?? Just trying to find ways to stretch my hay dollar! Thanks

Don't pay any attention to that. If you had the tools to do it with you would also find the appearance of soybean meal, fine ground corn, ddg and anything else that was fed to the cow. However, the cow has utilized the nutrients within these granules (or pieces of grass) leaving only the appearance of whatever it was to begin with. Sort of like a spider catching a fly and sucking the juices out and leaving the exoskeleton. There will be some nutrients in the residue as very few things are 100% digestible but she got all out of it that was available to her. What you are considering is certainly feasible but not necessarily the best option for a typical beef cow operation. Chopping the grass, storing in a bunker silo, packing and allowing it to ensile is feasible as well but few do it except a few dairies.

 

[user1]

Tub grinder. The only problem with grinding is it is tough on tractors. I've seen a few burnt up grinding feed. Also the wind blows some away. But if you are mixing two or so feed it is a good way.

 

[novatech]

Just remembered something else... may have been part of this same article about (don't laugh) taking a cup of cow poop and putting it in water and then running it through a fine strainer. You look at the residual "stuff" and it'll show you how the cow is processing its roughage... I want to say this was the same article about chopping hay but they claimed that the poo of cows eating UNCHOPPED hay would show a lot of large pieces passing completely through the digestive tract and coming out whole (6" or longer stems).... and the poo of cows eating chopped hay wouldn't show NEARLY as much coming out the other end... thereby proving that more was actually digested. I certainly am NOT going to go to the expense of chopping if its just a big waste of time but does anyone have any further thoughts on all this?? Just trying to find ways to stretch my hay dollar! Thanks

Don't pay any attention to that. If you had the tools to do it with you would also find the appearance of soybean meal, fine ground corn, ddg and anything else that was fed to the cow. However, the cow has utilized the nutrients within these granules (or pieces of grass) leaving only the appearance of whatever it was to begin with. Sort of like a spider catching a fly and sucking the juices out and leaving the exoskeleton. There will be some nutrients in the residue as very few things are 100% digestible but she got all out of it that was available to her. What you are considering is certainly feasible but not necessarily the best option for a typical beef cow operation. Chopping the grass, storing in a bunker silo, packing and allowing it to ensile is feasible as well but few do it except a few dairies.

Makes me wonder as to how efficient the particular animal was at extracting nutrients from the forage. For that matter you could run a test on how long one cow chewed her cud vs. another cow. I could see chopping hay may make some cattle utilize the forage better than others. Some cattle keep the forage in the rumen longer making digestion more complete. While others have a faster system. If the forage was chopped it would make more surface area available to the microbes. But then here we go back to the cattle chewing their cud and how efficient are they at doing that.
Grinding hay is not free. It costs in fuel and wear on equipment. Is the value gained worth the expense? Especially when you consider the cow has her/his own grinding machine built in.

 

[TexasBred]

It would take some very extensive research to determine all those "what ifs". We're talking bacteria working in a microscopic environment. All I'm saying is that just because you see what appears to be a long piece of hay in the manure it does not mean that the digestible nutrients have not been completely utilized by the animal. What you're looking at would not have been digested even if it had been ground into dust particles. We're talking billions of bacteria and enzymes that live only hours yet multiply constantly. You may do a few things to maximize rumen health but that's about it. Chopping hay simply makes it easier for a cow to get a mouthful. Don't know if that would offset the expense of buying or making feedbunks or fenceline feeders or not.