chicken liter verse's commercial fertlizer.
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Bill Elliott
Well-known member
Stepper- What did your soil sample say? Chicken liter is good organic matter but you will need "tons" of it to meet your requirements. Good thing about liter is that it releases N slowly. Most Chicken liter is about 3-3-2....3lbs of N per hundred pounds of liter. If you are trying to put organic matter in your garden or pasture...go for it...if your trying to "feed" your grass....commercial fertilizer best way to go. The key will be your soil sample..that will tell you what your pasture needs. Cheers,Bill
Bill,
I apprechaite your reply. My soil sample called for 353 lbs of 17-17-17 or 315 lbs of 19-19-19 per acre. But my extention agent thinks that 2 ton's of chicken liter per acre would be as good if not better. I am putting it on a hay meadow and some on pasture.
The extention agent said that 1 ton of chicken liter was like putting out 600 lb's of nitrogen. I dont see how he come's up with that. But i am not real good at understanding fertlizer's contents.
I apprechaite your reply. My soil sample called for 353 lbs of 17-17-17 or 315 lbs of 19-19-19 per acre. But my extention agent thinks that 2 ton's of chicken liter per acre would be as good if not better. I am putting it on a hay meadow and some on pasture.
The extention agent said that 1 ton of chicken liter was like putting out 600 lb's of nitrogen. I dont see how he come's up with that. But i am not real good at understanding fertlizer's contents.
Bill,
I have been told that commerical fertlizer is a one time deal. After your first cutting of hay, you need to put out more fertlizer and with chicken liter it last all through hay season.
Would you say this is right ?
I have been told that commerical fertlizer is a one time deal. After your first cutting of hay, you need to put out more fertlizer and with chicken liter it last all through hay season.
Would you say this is right ?
Ranchcop
Well-known member
When you comparing Chemical Fertilizer with Organic it is like comparing apples with oranges. With Chemicals you have to worry about loosing the nitrogen due to evaporation if it does not rain in a few days. Or loss of some of the NPK do to run off or leaching if it rains too much. With organic or in this case chicken litter, you dont have the run off or leaching problems as much, and you dont have to worry about evaporation.
When you look at a chemical fertilizer and see 17-17-17 that is the total numbers of chemicals. Then look at Organics and see 3-3-2 that to is the total number of organics nutrients in the product you are putting out but those numbers are what is actually fed to the plant. But then again look at the soil building abilities of organics compared to chemicals. So I believe that is it not fair to compare one with the other just looking at the numbers.
You are right about the litter lasting longer, the only thing I would worry about with litter is where does it come from? I have a customer that used Chicken Litter from his neighbors chicken houses for years until they changed the feeding program for their chickens and he said that "baby chicks where taken into the houses and less then 2 months later full grown chickens were coming out." What ever they were feeding those chickens he didnt want it on his property or in his water well. Now I do have customers that not only put Micro Organizims on top of the litter from there own chicken houses but also spray the Organizims in the houses to detoxify them and keep the smell down. The Micro Organizims decompose the organic matter and feed it to the roots of the plant.
When you look at a chemical fertilizer and see 17-17-17 that is the total numbers of chemicals. Then look at Organics and see 3-3-2 that to is the total number of organics nutrients in the product you are putting out but those numbers are what is actually fed to the plant. But then again look at the soil building abilities of organics compared to chemicals. So I believe that is it not fair to compare one with the other just looking at the numbers.
You are right about the litter lasting longer, the only thing I would worry about with litter is where does it come from? I have a customer that used Chicken Litter from his neighbors chicken houses for years until they changed the feeding program for their chickens and he said that "baby chicks where taken into the houses and less then 2 months later full grown chickens were coming out." What ever they were feeding those chickens he didnt want it on his property or in his water well. Now I do have customers that not only put Micro Organizims on top of the litter from there own chicken houses but also spray the Organizims in the houses to detoxify them and keep the smell down. The Micro Organizims decompose the organic matter and feed it to the roots of the plant.
skyeagle
Well-known member
If chicken litter burns so easy how can it be only 3-3-3.
I'm ready to get Four truck loads next week and turn it
under.
I'm ready to get Four truck loads next week and turn it
under.
Dave
Well-known member
Stepper,
Actually one ton of chicken litter that tests 3-3-3 has the same amount of nitrogen as your 353 pounds of 17-17-17. About half the N in the chicken litter is in the form of ammomium and half is in organic nitrogen.
The ammonium will either convert to nitrate and become plant available right away or volitilize off into the atmosphere. There will always be a certain amout of this loss but the degree will depend on the weather. A hot windy day there will be lots of loss to volitilization. On a cold rainy day there will be very little of this loss.
The nitrogen that is in an organic form is fairly stable and wont easily move. It also has to go through the process to convert to nitrate to become plant available. This take time and the right conditions in the soil. Some portions of this organic nitrogen will take years to break down. This is why you keep getting benefit from the litter long after you applied it.
An honest two ton of litter per acre is a fairly light application. In fact it would be difficult to apply it much lighter. In my experience this is not enough to cause any burning to occur.
Dave
Actually one ton of chicken litter that tests 3-3-3 has the same amount of nitrogen as your 353 pounds of 17-17-17. About half the N in the chicken litter is in the form of ammomium and half is in organic nitrogen.
The ammonium will either convert to nitrate and become plant available right away or volitilize off into the atmosphere. There will always be a certain amout of this loss but the degree will depend on the weather. A hot windy day there will be lots of loss to volitilization. On a cold rainy day there will be very little of this loss.
The nitrogen that is in an organic form is fairly stable and wont easily move. It also has to go through the process to convert to nitrate to become plant available. This take time and the right conditions in the soil. Some portions of this organic nitrogen will take years to break down. This is why you keep getting benefit from the litter long after you applied it.
An honest two ton of litter per acre is a fairly light application. In fact it would be difficult to apply it much lighter. In my experience this is not enough to cause any burning to occur.
Dave
rk
Well-known member
It's normal for broilers to be finished in 5-6 weeks.Ranchcop":npl9d7yj said:
Bill Elliott
Well-known member
Stepper":lrqob1gy said:
Stepper, To be honest I've never seen a soil sample that called for Trip-17 or Trip-19. Normally your N will be around 60-90lbs per acre sometime all the way up to 150lbs per acre. Your P requirement is usually not quite as high since it remains the in soil for much longer time than N. Your K requirement is usually fairly low when compared to your N and P requirements. After your first cutting of hay you normally put out more N..since it promotes leafy growth...and does not stay around in the soil long. You would not normally put out more P and K. Chicken liter/cow manure/horse manure all put organic matter back in the soil which is good but will not provide the amount of Nitrogen you are looking for. A lot of your fertilizer needs will be determined by what type of soil you have...county agent should be able to tell you. Cheers, Bill
alacattleman
Well-known member
litter takes longer too break down. ive seen hot spots were it burned the grass. but just watch for the clumpsskyeagle":2uu748je said:
Bill,
On my soil sample results there was three thing's that it called for. I dont have the results in front of me right now. But i think it called for 60 lbs N, 60 lbs Pot Ash, 60 lbs Phosphrus. I know the extention agent said the way to figure out how many pounds per acre to put out. Like if you wanted to use 17-17-17 you took the 60lb N and divided it buy 17 to come up with 353 lbs per acre or divide by 19 if using 19-19-19 to come up with 315 lbs per acre.
On my soil sample results there was three thing's that it called for. I dont have the results in front of me right now. But i think it called for 60 lbs N, 60 lbs Pot Ash, 60 lbs Phosphrus. I know the extention agent said the way to figure out how many pounds per acre to put out. Like if you wanted to use 17-17-17 you took the 60lb N and divided it buy 17 to come up with 353 lbs per acre or divide by 19 if using 19-19-19 to come up with 315 lbs per acre.
Bill Elliott
Well-known member
Stepper":30bxp1ui said:
Stepper,
I guess I would be suspicious of soil sample results that recommended 50lbs of N/P/K. Does not make sense to me. N is very "transient" in your soil while P usually stays around as does K...to a lesser extent. Your math is correct however..353lbs per acre of trip-17 to get 60lbs of N/P/K. When was your last fertilizer application? Did you grow legumes on that pasture? Sorry for the questions...just trying to figure out your soil sample results. Cheers, Bill
Bill,
No problem on the question's. I apprechaite your help. I bought this peace of property a little over a year ago. It is just twenty acres. I was told that it had been heavily littered the year before i bought it. I crossed fenced it into 3 sections. Now on the front feild did not call for anything to be done to it. It is a different type of soil from the other two feild's. The top soil is not very deep on it.
Now the soil sample did call for a ton and a half of lime per acre on the other two feild's. I put the lime out last November. On these two feild's it is a silt type soil and is fairly deep. I was able to sink the post hole auger 3 foot deep in most place's with out any problem. But on the front feild at about two feet i would hit sort of like a sandy type of clay.
The back two feild's has mostly weed's growing. Butter cup's, curly dock, red sorrel, horse knittle, very little bermuda (weed's has it choked out) some fescue ( patchy).
The front feild, even though it did not call for anything ( fertlity showed good) had quite a bit of bermuda and some type of legume's. I think might be hairy vetch. But it had quite a bit of honey locust ( about 15' tall) growing on 1/2 acre along with some privit. I have cut all of that down and painted the stumps with brush killer. And run the rest through a wood chipper.
When i get a little time i am going to study up on fertilizer's and just exactly what is what on them. I know what a ph scale is and what need's to be added to get the ph where it need's to be. But that is about it.
No problem on the question's. I apprechaite your help. I bought this peace of property a little over a year ago. It is just twenty acres. I was told that it had been heavily littered the year before i bought it. I crossed fenced it into 3 sections. Now on the front feild did not call for anything to be done to it. It is a different type of soil from the other two feild's. The top soil is not very deep on it.
Now the soil sample did call for a ton and a half of lime per acre on the other two feild's. I put the lime out last November. On these two feild's it is a silt type soil and is fairly deep. I was able to sink the post hole auger 3 foot deep in most place's with out any problem. But on the front feild at about two feet i would hit sort of like a sandy type of clay.
The back two feild's has mostly weed's growing. Butter cup's, curly dock, red sorrel, horse knittle, very little bermuda (weed's has it choked out) some fescue ( patchy).
The front feild, even though it did not call for anything ( fertlity showed good) had quite a bit of bermuda and some type of legume's. I think might be hairy vetch. But it had quite a bit of honey locust ( about 15' tall) growing on 1/2 acre along with some privit. I have cut all of that down and painted the stumps with brush killer. And run the rest through a wood chipper.
When i get a little time i am going to study up on fertilizer's and just exactly what is what on them. I know what a ph scale is and what need's to be added to get the ph where it need's to be. But that is about it.
Bama
Well-known member
Talking about soil samples I once had one done that called for 5 tons of lime per acre. Before I picked it up they called me wanting where I got that sample from. I laughed and told them it was from dirt 9 feet down I had dug out of my basement.
EIEIO
Well-known member
I've never had chicken litter "burn" any pasture of mine. But I've always gotten it from friends that had chicken houses and I used the stuff they had composted down rather than litter fresh from the house so I guess you would need to be careful in that respect.
I used to live in NW Arkansas and those pastures in that part of the country were literally built on litter.
However in the last 5 or so years I got to hearing stories from folks saying that the art of growing chickens had become such a science that the litter was not what it once was meaning the birds were able to so well utilize the feed they were given that the litter held less and less nutrients for the soil. Don't know if there is any truth to the matter or not but it did make sense to me anyway.
I've had great luck with chicken litter. It will just sit there waiting on a rain. If you do think it "burns" some of your pasture just wait for a rain and it will come right back.
The area we moved from had a law passed the year we moved that was going to restrict any fertilizer use in the area. The law only affected like 3 or 4 counties in NW Arkansas (making it easy to pass) and happened after Missouri and Oklahoma sued the state saying the rivers were being polluted by ranchers even though it was pretty common knowledge the pollution was coming from the sewer treatment plants but it was just easier to blame ranchers. I had folks from the U of A crawling all over my river bottom taking samples and they even told me where the pollution was coming from.
If I had stayed in the area I would have had to have gone to classes on fertilizer use and be certified to put it down plus keep very extensive records on how much I put down and where. I lived on a "scenic riverway" with over 1/2 mile of river going through our ranch and it was going to just be a matter of time before I would be restricted to the number of cattle we could have and how close we could let them get to the river.
Done with my rant now as I still have friends being affected by the silly law. Don't get me wrong there were folks who abused the environment IMO. One guy carried at least 1.5 animal units per acre and lived on the river. He owned his own chicken houses and would fertilize constantly. I also never was much for the guys that fed litter to their cattle. Vet's said it was OK and was at a 16% protein content but there was something just not "natural" about that to me and always felt of some disease crossover from the practice.
I'd always alternate between litter and commercial fertilizer. Both worked well for me but it seemed I could go longer without fertilizing when I put out litter. We would fertilize usually once a year but lots of folks in that area would fertilize a minimum of twice a year and if they owned chicken house it would be 3 times or more. They sure grew a lot of nice grass but if you did not own your own chicken house I never figured out how they could afford fertilizing so often.
J
I used to live in NW Arkansas and those pastures in that part of the country were literally built on litter.
However in the last 5 or so years I got to hearing stories from folks saying that the art of growing chickens had become such a science that the litter was not what it once was meaning the birds were able to so well utilize the feed they were given that the litter held less and less nutrients for the soil. Don't know if there is any truth to the matter or not but it did make sense to me anyway.
I've had great luck with chicken litter. It will just sit there waiting on a rain. If you do think it "burns" some of your pasture just wait for a rain and it will come right back.
The area we moved from had a law passed the year we moved that was going to restrict any fertilizer use in the area. The law only affected like 3 or 4 counties in NW Arkansas (making it easy to pass) and happened after Missouri and Oklahoma sued the state saying the rivers were being polluted by ranchers even though it was pretty common knowledge the pollution was coming from the sewer treatment plants but it was just easier to blame ranchers. I had folks from the U of A crawling all over my river bottom taking samples and they even told me where the pollution was coming from.
If I had stayed in the area I would have had to have gone to classes on fertilizer use and be certified to put it down plus keep very extensive records on how much I put down and where. I lived on a "scenic riverway" with over 1/2 mile of river going through our ranch and it was going to just be a matter of time before I would be restricted to the number of cattle we could have and how close we could let them get to the river.
Done with my rant now as I still have friends being affected by the silly law. Don't get me wrong there were folks who abused the environment IMO. One guy carried at least 1.5 animal units per acre and lived on the river. He owned his own chicken houses and would fertilize constantly. I also never was much for the guys that fed litter to their cattle. Vet's said it was OK and was at a 16% protein content but there was something just not "natural" about that to me and always felt of some disease crossover from the practice.
I'd always alternate between litter and commercial fertilizer. Both worked well for me but it seemed I could go longer without fertilizing when I put out litter. We would fertilize usually once a year but lots of folks in that area would fertilize a minimum of twice a year and if they owned chicken house it would be 3 times or more. They sure grew a lot of nice grass but if you did not own your own chicken house I never figured out how they could afford fertilizing so often.
J
longhorn314
Well-known member
I know here in Tennessee the people who use chicken litter sure do have some ticked off neighbors for a few days cause the smell can get pretty rank.But it seems to do the job.
EIEIO
Well-known member
longhorn314":29zdcl13 said:
If they would put out turkey litter once the neighbors would be begging them to keep putting out the chicken litter :lol: !
J
salemhigh
Well-known member
buy the litter if you can get it and put 4 ton per acre and your done for maybe 2 years,i do this on all my pastures untill the phosphate level gets to high.it will always outdo commercial fertilizer.
norriscathy
Well-known member
The problem with chicken litter, is that you have no clue as to what you are getting. Depending on bedding content, mositure, etc, etc; there are tremendous differences from one batch to another. The same people that test your soil can also test your litter to determine the actual content. We've also had problems with people trying to sell a "6 ton" fertilizer spreader full of chicken litter as 6 tons of litter. Actually, dry litter weighs about 1/3 as much as commercial fertilizer, and a "6 ton" spreader will only hold 2 tons of litter.
Norris
Norris
