CB and any others who have cleared land to start.

[arkie1]

Had a little bit of my dream crushed over the weekend. A piece of ground we've been wanting to get our hands on has probably just sold. We were hoping it'd be available in another year or so when we'd be in a position to get it. The wife and I had already discussed where we'd like to have put a house, barn, garden and all (we had the pasture leased). I guess I was sort of having myself a pity party and I stumbled across the "Who started from nothing?" thread (which we are) a couple days ago. Then I got to thinking after reading CB's post :hide:. There's property near where we want to be that has timber standing on it. More than I originally planned on buying.

I'm fairly young, and not afraid to work.
I have friends in the forestry business who could help with valuing the timber.
I have access to the equipment needed to clean the place up after it's logged.
I would be able to do all fencing, plowing, planting and everything else myself, with help from family.

My question I guess is what's ya'lls experience/advice with this type of venture?

How long will it take before the ground would be ready for grazing.
Stumps- dig them up? Let them rot?
NRCS- What ,in layman's terms, can they do for me? Fence? Ponds? Planting?

I looked at NRCS's website for a few minutes but I really couldn't make heads or tails of it. The legal mumbo jumbo got to be too much for me.

 

[callmefence]

Here all the nrcs will do is give you directions to the a&m agrilife office. And if you use the directions you'll probably get lost.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Hopefully Jogeephus will log into this thread. He's in the know, and if he doesn't respond PM him.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Had a little bit of my dream crushed over the weekend. A piece of ground we've been wanting to get our hands on has probably just sold. We were hoping it'd be available in another year or so when we'd be in a position to get it. The wife and I had already discussed where we'd like to have put a house, barn, garden and all (we had the pasture leased). I guess I was sort of having myself a pity party and I stumbled across the "Who started from nothing?" thread (which we are) a couple days ago. Then I got to thinking after reading CB's post :hide:. There's property near where we want to be that has timber standing on it. More than I originally planned on buying.

I'm fairly young, and not afraid to work.
I have friends in the forestry business who could help with valuing the timber.
I have access to the equipment needed to clean the place up after it's logged.
I would be able to do all fencing, plowing, planting and everything else myself, with help from family.

My question I guess is what's ya'lls experience/advice with this type of venture?

How long will it take before the ground would be ready for grazing.
Stumps- dig them up? Let them rot?
NRCS- What ,in layman's terms, can they do for me? Fence? Ponds? Planting?

I looked at NRCS's website for a few minutes but I really couldn't make heads or tails of it. The legal mumbo jumbo got to be too much for me.

I had the ground grazing the same year
at a reduced rate.
Cut and sold the timber that I wanted harvested hired a D-9 with a shear blade he wind rowed all the stumps and small timber. He could shear ten to twelve acres a day
Back then it cost 125 an hour for a D-9 and operator.
The timber paid for the land and the dozer.
Seeded the place in common Bermuda and Bahia. The Bermuda covered rapidly on the new ground providing grazing the Bahia smothered out the Bermuda through the years.

 

[arkie1]

Had a little bit of my dream crushed over the weekend. A piece of ground we've been wanting to get our hands on has probably just sold. We were hoping it'd be available in another year or so when we'd be in a position to get it. The wife and I had already discussed where we'd like to have put a house, barn, garden and all (we had the pasture leased). I guess I was sort of having myself a pity party and I stumbled across the "Who started from nothing?" thread (which we are) a couple days ago. Then I got to thinking after reading CB's post :hide:. There's property near where we want to be that has timber standing on it. More than I originally planned on buying.

I'm fairly young, and not afraid to work.
I have friends in the forestry business who could help with valuing the timber.
I have access to the equipment needed to clean the place up after it's logged.
I would be able to do all fencing, plowing, planting and everything else myself, with help from family.

My question I guess is what's ya'lls experience/advice with this type of venture?

How long will it take before the ground would be ready for grazing.
Stumps- dig them up? Let them rot?
NRCS- What ,in layman's terms, can they do for me? Fence? Ponds? Planting?

I looked at NRCS's website for a few minutes but I really couldn't make heads or tails of it. The legal mumbo jumbo got to be too much for me.

I had the ground grazing the same year
at a reduced rate.
Cut and sold the timber that I wanted harvested hired a D-9 with a shear blade he wind rowed all the stumps and small timber. He could shear ten to twelve acres a day
Back then it cost 125 an hour for a D-9 and operator.
The timber paid for the land and the dozer.
Seeded the place in common Bermuda and Bahia. The Bermuda covered rapidly on the new ground providing grazing the Bahia smothered out the Bermuda through the years.

Did your property have a lot of hardwood or pine? The place I'm thinking about is mostly pine so I'm sure the Ph is way off.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Had huge stands of both had pine so large they had to take them to a mill in La as they were too big for ours.
I left a stand of cherry bark red oaks sixty to seventy feet to the first limb just to pretty a place to sit and hunt with the kids then.
Arlie I burned the wind rows limed the place with a ton to the acre. Our soil is acidic to start with.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Here are some pics of what cleared forest can become. It's work

 

[arkie1]

I'm gonna look into it for sure. It doesn't have enough timber on it to pay for the land I don't think but I'm willing to put some of my own money with it simply because of the location. Any NCRS experience CB?

 

[Caustic Burno]

None can't help there.

 

[arkie1]

Here are some pics of what cleared forest can become. It's work

That's a nice lookin place there. :clap:

 

[arkie1]

Here all the nrcs will do is give you directions to the a&m agrilife office. And if you use the directions you'll probably get lost.

I've heard mixed things. A local guy cleared and did his entire place through them. He'd probably be a good source of knowledge but we got cross way's awhile back. Not that I'm one to hold a grudge or anything. :cowboy:

 

[Brute 23]

Clearing land is a good investment IMO. If you can afford to clear land you own you will significantly increase the value and productivity.

Some of the most productive land we have is under brush and trees. We always laugh and say that land is so sorry only grass could survive.

 

[arkie1]

Clearing land is a good investment IMO. If you can afford to clear land you own you will significantly increase the value and productivity.

Some of the most productive land we have is under brush and trees. We always laugh and say that land is so sorry only grass could survive.

:lol: I'll have to keep that one in mind.

 

[dave_shelby]

Another option around here is recently logged land. Ugly land, not cleaned up, tops laying around - these properties sell cheap. If the tops get burned off, it turns into decent pasture in a half dozen years. If you turn around and sell you could make a nice profit, a whole lot more than cattle.

 

[greybeard]

I did it on 60 ac beginning in late 2007, but mostly 2008 when I was 58 yrs old, but no NRCS. The only govt agency that I had come out was Nat and Tx Forest Service to give me the go ahead to burn the piled up tops and limbs. (My property is bordered on 3 sides by National Forest)
Some things to think about:
1. It's pretty easy to take land from a forest, but keep in mind--that forest wants it back and will forever try to take that cleared land back. CB will attest to that.
2. You will want to leave some trees so the cattle will have shade. Not just one here and one there--leave little groups, but have the loggers thin them out so you can get in and bush hog regrowth out between the trees. If you don't that area will grow up in vines, briar, brambles and saplings and before you know it, you got little forests here and there that you can't do anything with, and it will expand each year. Be prepared to lose a few of the trees you leave due to logging damage and wind that is now free to blow where before the trees provided a wind break. See Ouachita's thread in Everything Else.
3. If you have drainage areas on that property, (arroyos and draws) leave some growth to inhibit erosion.
4. Research research, research--and plan! Find a reputable logging co to do the cutting/hauling. Find out what the value is on the timber before signing a contract, and any particulars you want, make sure you have that in the contract. My property is split in two sections by a long pond and the 12-15 ac on the west side I wanted clear cut with the exception of a few trees for shade. I stipulated that it was to be cut clear before the loggers moved to the east side. They didn't and I had to go out, show the crew the contract and insisted they move the shear and skidder back over and finish the west side per contract. (I knew what they would do--finish the East side, load their equipment and be gone and I'd be stuck cutting all the saplings and junk trees myself.)

5. Pay attention to how much they haul vs how many mill tickets you get. That means someone will have to be there to count trucks unless you just sell the timber as a tract. Not unheard of for unsupervised crews to haul one for you and one truckload for them.
6. Decide what you and the loggers will be doing with the small stuff. You will have to find out what the mills are actually taking. When mine was logged, no nearby mills were taking pine or hardwood pulpwood, and general timber prices were way down anyway (the recession had already started and building boom was months over).
7. If you have plans on a home and barns on that property, plat them out before the logging starts--marking what trees you want left. No sense having to get someone to come in later and clear that area off--do it while the loggers are there.
8. Cleanup tops and limbs. Don't under-estimate the scope of this job. You can do it with a tractor and FEL but both will be worn out when you get done if not tore up, and depending on the size of the property, it can take a long time. I had a neighbor that is partially disabled, and I just hired him to pile it. I burned the piles and then cleaned and re-piled what didn't burn with my tractor. blade and a 6' landscape rake.
9. Depending on the value of the timber, pencil out what you think you will get for the timber vs what it will cost you to clean it up. I have known people who took a big hit on their part of the log sale in exchange for the loggers to rake and pile it when they were done.

10. Stumps. Some will rot pretty quickly--big hardwood and lightered pine stumps may be there forever. I had 90% of the stumps on my west side ground down but was having a house built at the same time, wife wanted some extras on the house, and something had to give in the budget and it was the stump grinding.


aerial view before:


Part of it, where my house is now:



about a year later:



My wife setting fire to one of over 20 piles we had:




More recent aerial view:

 

[rockroadseminole]

Some things to think about:
1. It's pretty easy to take land from a forest, but keep in mind--that forest wants it back and will forever try to take that cleared land back. CB will attest to that.
2. You will want to leave some trees so the cattle will have shade. Not just one here and one there--leave little groups, but have the loggers thin them out so you can get in and bush hog regrowth out between the trees. If you don't that area will grow up in vines, briar, brambles and saplings and before you know it, you got little forests here and there that you can't do anything with, and it will expand each year.

Greybeard is on the money with this! Genesis 3:17-19 sums this one up!

Hardwood is through the roof here. I missed out on this opportunity last year. Guy bought the jungle down the road and has cut the timber already. For sale sign went up as the last log truck pulled out. Good for him... he should make out nicely when it sells.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The cheapest way to clear the stumps and trash is a D-9 and a shear blade and a homemade root rake
It is a fight the first few years 2-4-D will be your best friend.

 

[greybeard]

X2 on the rake. That was one of biggest regrets--that skidder blade put lots of dirt into the burn piles. Texas Timberjack had one for sale at the time for a skidder blade and I didn't think it would be worth it. Live and learn.

 

[M Thomason]

I clear cut 27acres in 2007 had the stumps dug and tops piled. He charged me $800 per acre or $21,600 and I had to deal with the piles myself. After they dried for bout 6 months I burned them in 2008 and still had a mess to clean up. Most of the stumps didn't burn up so I had another man load the remains of the brush piles and haul this to the back side of my field and dump them in the woods. This cost another $4500. Now days most of the loggers around here have chippers and haul all the tops to the pulp mill. Some even haul the pine stumps away too. I only had a little JD 1050 bout 38hp and no loader. I started plowing with a 5 shank pasture plow and loading the roots and rocks on a 10ft utility trailer and hauling it to the woods and unloading it by hand. After I got about 5 or 6 acres cleared and ready to plant I knew I couldn't spend this much time on the rest of the fields so I bought a 5510 JD and had a loader put on it. This worked a lot betted but still a lot of work all by myself. I built my own fence with some help from a friend and my grandson. Think I had about $7000 in the wire and post. About the time I was doing this the price of everything went through the roof. China was buying up everything metal getting ready for the Olympics. Diesel fuel went to $4 a gallon fertilizer about doubled driven by high oil prices. Seed is not cheap and then you throw in a couple of drought years where all the fescue I planted in the fall died the next summer. It was a learning experience no doubt but it can be done if you are willing to work hard. I was 54 yrs old when I started this project and I don't know if I would do it again. I don't think I will ever recover the cost with these few cows I've got. If you can find land already in pasture you will be dollars ahead even if it cost a lot more per acre.

 

[Brute 23]

We had some black and white brush bladed off at one place. It came in a little under budget and the guy had a root plow so I asked him to make 2 strip thru it for me... down and back. When he got back to me I was begging No Mas! The cost to rake it and smooth it out would have been twice as much as what it cost to blade it. Sprayed it with a hard dose of Grazon Next the last 2 years and it looks great.

We mulched some areas last year and the mulch has almost all disappeared and the grass has grown back good thru it. Spraying it good this year.

IMO if you can leve the stumps in the ground to rot do it. Spray the surface and keep moving.