Can anyone help w/this?

[Cathy]

Okay here is one for all you pro's..
This calf is about a week maybe 9 days old. When the guys pulled him from the lot on Monday morning he was weak, droopy head and ears and very thin. I tried to feed him a bottle and he didn't know what the heck it was or how to suck so I figure he didn't get anything from mom. I ended up tube feeding him, after that he laid there and acted like he wanted to go poo, he pushed and pushed but only a small pebble came out with some blood on it. I called the vet and he told me to give it an enema and continue to tube feed 2 quarts of milk untill the calf started drinking on his own. Well the enema worked some but the stool was not normal it looked like the lining of the stomach or intestines or something, was green and slimmey. Again the vet said to do another enema and continue to tube feed as long as the calf was standing and walking (real slow and shakey) Well now it has bright yellow stool with slimmy clear/pink tinted mixed in and after he goes he is real worn out. He wants to suck but after about 1 pint he quits and won't drink anymore. I have been giving him batril and polyflex, I just today gave him some "pepto" and started him on electrolytes. (vet said do milk instead of electrolytes) I am baffeled with this one. Can anyone help me out???
Cathy

 

[1848]

Okay here is one for all you pro's..
This calf is about a week maybe 9 days old. When the guys pulled him from the lot on Monday morning he was weak, droopy head and ears and very thin. I tried to feed him a bottle and he didn't know what the heck it was or how to suck so I figure he didn't get anything from mom. I ended up tube feeding him, after that he laid there and acted like he wanted to go poo, he pushed and pushed but only a small pebble came out with some blood on it. I called the vet and he told me to give it an enema and continue to tube feed 2 quarts of milk untill the calf started drinking on his own. Well the enema worked some but the stool was not normal it looked like the lining of the stomach or intestines or something, was green and slimmey. Again the vet said to do another enema and continue to tube feed as long as the calf was standing and walking (real slow and shakey) Well now it has bright yellow stool with slimmy clear/pink tinted mixed in and after he goes he is real worn out. He wants to suck but after about 1 pint he quits and won't drink anymore. I have been giving him batril and polyflex, I just today gave him some "pepto" and started him on electrolytes. (vet said do milk instead of electrolytes) I am baffeled with this one. Can anyone help me out???
Cathy

Lack of suckling could be due to just being weak. If it was never witnessed as getting on a teat then it could have missed the colostrum in the first day or so. That will usually sign his death warrant but not always. Could have got a tinge of pneumonia which has made it weak. The slimey stool and blood can be normal, and the fact you are seeing yellow stool now is a positive note. If the blood continues to worsen in the stool you might be dealing with cocidiosis, but it's not likely. You usually wouldn't see cocidiosis in a calf younger then about 3 weeks old. My guess is, just weak, due to pneumonia or lack of initial milk. Antibiotics, B12, a couple of boluses, and it won't hurt to do electrolytes every third feeding, but the milk will stay in his gut and help his track work. Just keep the consistency and temperature of the milk replacer constant to prevent the calf from scouring.

 

[norriscathy]

I am not going to be much help here; but I just had to put down a calf that sounded exactly the same. It look like he had passed his intentine lining, but more bloody than green. Tubed him for two weeks, never could get him to take more than a pint at a time from the bottle. He started looking better but legs and hind quarters seem to get weaker with time and finally we had a hard time getting him to standup. We controlled the bloody scours with Spectam but they would come back after a few days. I've been doing this a long time but have never seen anything like this.

Norris

 

[Cathy]

Hi everyone,
Thank you for your replys, He seems to be doing better now on the electrolytes, he has sucked down 2-2quart bottles and acts like he wants more. He actually stands up when I go into the box stall and trys to run to me (still very wobbly) but has gotten the hang of sucking as long as I use a loose nipple. I am going to give him some milk replacer this afternoon now that the electrolytes have had 12 hours in him. I don't know what the bolus is used for, but I will pick some up this afternoon and give it to him. I have not been doing this for very long only a year, came from the city basiclly the only experience I have with nursing young ones is my children so that is the instinct I have gone with and so far I have saved the lives of 11 calves that otherwise would have died in the lot.
I must be doing something right..LOL I am glad I found this group tho, Thanks again for the help!
Cathy

 

[randiliana]

Sounds positive for him, but I would still watch him carefully. Unfortunately, I can't help you too much, but here are a couple of suggestions.
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This calf sounds like he was dehydrated, one way to tell for sure, is to pinch some skin up and if it "tents", and doesn't immediately snap back then he is dehydrated.

Another thing I have learned, is to feed the electrolytes in several smaller doses than to feed it in one big dose. They seem to be able to process it better that way.

 

[ctlbaron]

Sounds like you have him going the right way Cathy. You might try giving him a mouthful of peanut butter after he has his bottle. It helps give them energy and peps them up a little. I hope he continues to improve.

 

[Cathy]

Well he is doing just great, I have named him miracle because I think that is what happened with him. He is running and bouncing like a normal calf and is drinking just fine however I have him spoiled, he wants to lay his head against me while he is drinking the bottle, guess that means I am "mommy". I have never heard of giving peanut butter to a calf?? I will do it tho just out of curiosity LOL We are holding off on the banding untill he is a few more weeks old to make sure he has the strength.
I have a question tho, Am I crazy for loving and touching the calfs and making them tame? My husband and inlaws think I am, but then they won't admit when they need to see a doctor untill they are half dead either..LOL
Thanks again everyone and I will let you know if anything changes.
Cathy

 

[1848]

I have a question tho, Am I crazy for loving and touching the calfs and making them tame? Cathy

I'm sure the leaning of the head at feeding time is doing you both allot of good. Your never crazy for loving them, only never put all your trust in them and always keep your guard up.
Not meaning to sound sinical, but they are animals and they will act like animals. They may hurt you not meaning to because you have made it easier for them not to fear you

 

[Farminlund]

Agree that there is little harm in getting friendly with your cows, think all dairy cows are friends of the farmer (just my guess). I would recommend if you are going to touch then not to do it on the head. If they get used to that & start getting playful - you can be an a bit of a pickle (remember that is their weapon & they practice with it often in "play" with their fellow herdmates) & it won't be any different with you. I will touch them only on the back end - they love being scrathed under the tail & on the side of the tailhead (usually a bit clearner there anyhow). Just an imput you might consider.

I will say that a very tame cow can be a pain in the butt to handle sometimes because they have no fear of you & if they don't want to go somewhere you want them to go - it can take a lot of extra work to finally make that happen. I know I was in that situation this morning.

 

[Bullbuyer]

Avoiding the head is very good advice. I've bought several "problem" bulls from farmers - they were raised on a bottle and some very well intentioned adults and children rubbed the calf's head and ears. As the bull got older he continued to want someone to do that - next thing you know, someone get's shoved through the fence by a 5 year old bull that wants his ears scratched !!! Of course, he not too difficult for me and my crew to load.

 

[msscamp]

I have a question tho, Am I crazy for loving and touching the calfs and making them tame? Cathy

No, you're not crazy. As others have said though, be careful around pet's - even calves - because they can hurt you badly without meaning to. Those little guys have an amazing amount of strength and one well-placed kick or butt of the head can put a person out of commission for a little while. That having been said, another place they love being scratched is the withers. I used to have a bottle baby that, when she was very young, wouldn't take her bottle unless she was wrapped around me and under my arm. :lol: :lol: She outgrew it as she got older, fortunately.

 

[dun]

I have a question tho, Am I crazy for loving and touching the calfs and making them tame? Cathy

No, you're not crazy. As others have said though, be careful around pet's - even calves - because they can hurt you badly without meaning to. Those little guys have an amazing amount of strength and one well-placed kick or butt of the head can put a person out of commission for a little while. That having been said, another place they love being scratched is the withers. I used to have a bottle baby that, when she was very young, wouldn't take her bottle unless she was wrapped around me and under my arm. :lol: :lol: She outgrew it as she got older, fortunately.

The heifers we're going to retain we calm and gentle down. May not pet them, but they're used to having us walk next to them and not get up and move away. If you want to make a real pet out of one, teach them something to do. You don;t have to go overboard, but teaching them simple voice commands, git up, whoa, step up, step back, step in, step out, gee, haw, back, etc. will help to make them/keep them easy to work with and will not, I've never seen it anyway, think of you as a toy or buddy. These are the basic commands that you teach an ox, by 6 months they may not be very accomplished at them, but they will be able to do them. BTW, I scratch the oxens heads, ears, face, train them to let me pick up their feet etc. Training them to do something usefull is fun, not easy, but very rewarding.

dun

 

[Farminlund]

Dun - that's fascinating. Do these oxen actually get to do work? How do you find the time to run the farm, train the animals, work these animals (got to be slower than using a tractor) & help nearly every would be cattle farmer in the world (plus those of us with a little know how)?

 

[dun]

Dun - that's fascinating. Do these oxen actually get to do work? How do you find the time to run the farm, train the animals, work these animals (got to be slower than using a tractor) & help nearly every would be cattle farmer in the world (plus those of us with a little know how)?

I stay pretty busy. But I sold my last oxen when we bought this farm because I knew I'ld be up to my neck in trying to get it fixed up and reclaimed from the neglect and abuse. I got a pair of calves this year because I now have the time again. After all, there are 24 hours in a day and when you don;t sleep much at night and/or have to take frequent breaks during the day you seem to find the time. As for doing work, all I use them for is hauling trees/brush out of the woods and pulling a stone boat for clearing rocks. It will be a couple of months yet before these guys are ready to start doing much other then just pulling a tire around to get them used to working in a yoke.
There 3 weeks old now, not in the pictures and I'll probably put them in a yoke this week

 

[Farminlund]

Dun - I love it - just plain neat! I know not what breed those are, are there better breeds than others to train to be oxen? I have to admit I've only seen oxen work once or twice at Williamsburg, VA - again, I found it most fascinating. It just didn't seem possible to take one of my calves & train it to work as a horse. The term oxen is not widely used in the US, but in parts of Scandinavia that I've been to, beef is referred to as oxen on their menus.

 

[dun]

Dun - I love it - just plain neat! I know not what breed those are, are there better breeds than others to train to be oxen?

Dick & Jim are red Holsteins. Any of the dairy breeds can and are used as oxen. Hereford Holstein crosses are popular in some pars of Canada. As in everything, some breeds are better suited for some tasks then others.

http://www.ruralheritage.com/ox_paddock/oxbreeds1.htm

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

Dun, Very interesting, where do you get the yoke, harness,etc? Are bulls used for work also or just the "ox"?

 

[dun]

Dun, Very interesting, where do you get the yoke, harness,etc? Are bulls used for work also or just the "ox"?

Most of the yokes come from the uppder mid-west or the new england states. That's really the "hot bed" of oxen. With a single ox you need to use a harnass, or with oxen without horns.
Some people work them as bulls their entire lives, most cut them at about 1 year so they've got more mass to them. Not sure when I'll cut these guys, maybe this month, maybe next, whenever it's handy. Since during the day when I'm not doing anything with them I turn them out with the cow herd I don;t want any unexpected little Holstein hybreds. Ox is a generic term for a bovine trained to work, there are cows used as oxen also. Supposedly many of the oxen that were used to pull the pioneers across the plaines used cows as oxen, that way they had milk for the trip.

dun

 

[Farminlund]

Some people work them as bulls their entire lives, most cut them at about 1 year so they've got more mass to them. Not sure when I'll cut these guys, maybe this month, maybe next, whenever it's handy. Since during the day when I'm not doing anything with them I turn them out with the cow herd I don;t want any unexpected little Holstein hybreds. Ox is a generic term for a bovine trained to work, there are cows used as oxen also. Supposedly many of the oxen that were used to pull the pioneers across the plaines used cows as oxen, that way they had milk for the trip.

dun

Dun - I was curious about the term Oxen as I thought it meant something different than what you stated, so I hit on a site that seems to hold the worlds largest Oxen Festival - http://www.fryeburgfair.com/Livestock/Oxen/Oxen.html

From that site I copied the following: "Most non-farm people ask, sooner or later, "What is the difference between a steer and an ox?" Pat Norton patiently explained:"The best way I can tell you is that a steer is a young ox which hasn't been castrated. Usually they are castrated at six months to two years. An ox is just an old steer that has been castrated."

Roy Andrews added, "They are actually called steers here up to three years old. Anything over three years old is an ox. Steers can be castrated at any age, but they are usually castrated as calves. If they're not castrated, they are bulls." If bulls are castrated later in life, they are called stags, according to Phil Andrews. "Some of these animals are big steers," said Roy Andrews."

Doesn't make much sense to me (seems that there is a different definition for steer & stag than what we think of the cattle business) – Dun can you explain? Is this info correct?

 

[dun]

Some people work them as bulls their entire lives, most cut them at about 1 year so they've got more mass to them. Not sure when I'll cut these guys, maybe this month, maybe next, whenever it's handy. Since during the day when I'm not doing anything with them I turn them out with the cow herd I don;t want any unexpected little Holstein hybreds. Ox is a generic term for a bovine trained to work, there are cows used as oxen also. Supposedly many of the oxen that were used to pull the pioneers across the plaines used cows as oxen, that way they had milk for the trip.

dun

Dun - I was curious about the term Oxen as I thought it meant something different than what you stated, so I hit on a site that seems to hold the worlds largest Oxen Festival - http://www.fryeburgfair.com/Livestock/Oxen/Oxen.html

From that site I copied the following: "Most non-farm people ask, sooner or later, "What is the difference between a steer and an ox?" Pat Norton patiently explained:"The best way I can tell you is that a steer is a young ox which hasn't been castrated. Usually they are castrated at six months to two years. An ox is just an old steer that has been castrated."

Roy Andrews added, "They are actually called steers here up to three years old. Anything over three years old is an ox. Steers can be castrated at any age, but they are usually castrated as calves. If they're not castrated, they are bulls." If bulls are castrated later in life, they are called stags, according to Phil Andrews. "Some of these animals are big steers," said Roy Andrews."

Doesn't make much sense to me (seems that there is a different definition for steer & stag than what we think of the cattle business) – Dun can you explain? Is this info correct?

Drew Conroy explains it a whole lot better then I, and he throws in some of the cultural variations

http://www.ruralheritage.com/ox_paddock/ox_whatis.htm