calf puller

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diamond_a":1rfcpox8 said:
Heifers that have had assistance in delivery are more likely to conceive and carry a calf that same year after being assisted.
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i agree with everyone else that assisting them all is retarded for lack of a better word. and the above quote is BS in my opinion/from my experience. what do you do if one has a calf on her own while you arent looking?

In addition to that we calved out 40 heifers last year and pulled zero and out of 54 this year had to pull one b/c its foot was turned back.
 
I'm not trying to start a revolution of every rancher getting into pulling heifers like I do. The real plain and simple of it is that unless you have actually done it the way I'm talking about for more than one year then you have no experience with it. And for anyone to say that it doesn't work on an operation had better be able to say that they have pulled at least as many calves as I have. Instead of saying its a retarded practice and then telling me you only pulled one out of 94. Don't knock it till you've tried it. Bull selection is certainly not a problem. Two years ago when pulling these calves I weighed them. Out of all of them (bull calves and heifer calves) they averaged 72 pounds.
If you don't want to assist heifers thats fine. Lots of people don't. We have been in the business of producing cattle (and lots of them) for close to 110 years, we aren't exactly wet behind the ear. I think its just kinda silly that someone will actually try to tell me, or anyone else, that the way something is done is "retarded" when they have no experience with it.
 
I would honestly think, and this is of course just my opinion, that pulling a calf instead of letting a heifer calve normally (I'm talking no breach or leg back, etc. etc.) is a lot healthier for the heifer than just the stress of pulling one.

I'm sure you have an ideal set up where the heifer is in the correct position to pull the calves.. not up against a wall, or in a corner where it's not an ideal pulling situation, so it won't hurt the heifer or be more stressful than say a natural birth in a small lot.

Must just be me, but I've had a lot more problems getting a heifer bred back that I had to pull a calf than one that's had a natural calf. No matter how careful and competent you are, you have a much higher risk of infection when you pull one.

But as we all know.. "to each his own". That's just a very different practice than I've ever heard of. And I'm not "wet behind the ears" either.
 
"Cows and heifers that experience calving difficulty will be delayed in rebreeding. Two studies with 220 cows in Montana examined the effects of assisting cows at the first sign of calving problems with letting cows struggle before assisting. In these studies, calf growth rate was not affected by duration of labor. However, cows and heifers, that were assisted early, bred back earlier (Table 2.). In addition, overall pregnancy rates were decreased by 13-14% percent by allowing cows to struggle."

Here's a link to the whole article from Virginia Tech: http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/ ... s-409.html
 
Well, I am still a "little wet behind the ears", but in the last 3-4 yrs, I have read probably hundreds if not thousands of magazine articles and books on raising cattle, and I've never seen one that suggested helping a heifer that was having a calf naturally and problem free. It's always suggested to try and keep a close eye on heifers when possible, and be ready when needed, but dont just jump in because you feel the need to.

So you actually reach in and start pulling a calf out if the calf hasnt started showing? Is this more for you're convienence or for the cows?



***edited because I can't spell "convienence?.
 
diamond_a":3qai9tx1 said:
"Cows and heifers that experience calving difficulty will be delayed in rebreeding. Two studies with 220 cows in Montana examined the effects of assisting cows at the first sign of calving problems with letting cows struggle before assisting. In these studies, calf growth rate was not affected by duration of labor. However, cows and heifers, that were assisted early, bred back earlier (Table 2.). In addition, overall pregnancy rates were decreased by 13-14% percent by allowing cows to struggle."

Here's a link to the whole article from Virginia Tech: http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/ ... s-409.html
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Now thats different than what you posted earlier. Everyone tries to help a cow thats struggling, whenever possible. But you stated you assisted and pulled every heifer, whether struggling or not. Thats what we found hard to comprehend. Nothing wrong with helping a cow if she needs it.
 
diamond_a":3sti7jph said:
"Cows and heifers that experience calving difficulty will be delayed in rebreeding. Two studies with 220 cows in Montana examined the effects of assisting cows at the first sign of calving problems with letting cows struggle before assisting. In these studies, calf growth rate was not affected by duration of labor. However, cows and heifers, that were assisted early, bred back earlier (Table 2.). In addition, overall pregnancy rates were decreased by 13-14% percent by allowing cows to struggle."

Here's a link to the whole article from Virginia Tech: http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/ ... s-409.html
Click to expand...

Just a couple of curious questions:

This article is about assisting cows and heifers "...at the first sign of calving problems..." How much assistance do you give to your females that are not showing signs of struggling?

Beefy said:
what do you do if one has a calf on her own while you arent looking?
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Do you have many problems here?

What about younger cows (say 3-5 yrs old) having birthing difficulties, since they were assisted with their first birth do they have much problems with their 2nd calf, 3rd calf, etc...? Seems like all the assistance might be selecting against calving ease.

Ryan
 
Agree with the "anti-pullers". Having to pull a calf is very possibly a combination of sire/dam genetics along with a little bit of bad luck. And/or over-feeding the dam in the last month or two before calving.

So far we have never had to assist or pull one of our Longhorn calves. First calf heifers and cows just seem to spit them right out. Did have one 1st calf heifer that took a while to calve though. Our calves range between 45 and 65 lbs (did have 2 in low 70's though): they gain rapidly after that with only mama's milk and what grazing, hay, mineral they do until weaning at 205 days. Always put mama in small pen 1-3 weeks before due date and keep them in pen for 1-2 weeks before integrating with other cows/calves.
 
diamond_a":3qnqqzis said:
been in the business of producing cattle (and lots of them) for close to 110 years, we aren't exactly wet behind the ear.
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Hey look on the bright side, I'm still wet behind the ears. I ain't quite half of 110 yet. Kinda like being carded for buying beer. Makes my day. Maybe I'll challenge Jake to a footrace.
 
everyone does things differently if it works for him it sounds like he knows what he doing. if you calve that many cows a year, and get them rebred then keep up the good work. may not be my preference but i can devote more time to my 25 head than he can 500 cows and 60 heifers a year.
 
i'm not saying it doesnt work, i'm saying its stupid and pointless. because its stupid and pointless, i'm not going to try it. i know that jumping off a bridge is stupid and ive never tried that. dont plan on it either. no amount of studies can prove to me that heifers that require assistance at calving breed back faster than those that calve unassisted without difficulty. those that require assistance versus those left to struggle on their own are a different story. believe me, i've pulled my fair share of calves in my day but i danm sure dont do it for fun. dont have time to do my job AND hers. as far as the 110 years goes you forgot to say "so there!" after it.
 
Beefy":3thr5b5u said:
i'm not saying it doesnt work, i'm saying its stupid and pointless. because its stupid and pointless, i'm not going to try it. i know that jumping off a bridge is stupid and ive never tried that. dont plan on it either. no amount of studies can prove to me that heifers that require assistance at calving breed back faster than those that calve unassisted without difficulty. those that require assistance versus those left to struggle on their own are a different story. believe me, i've pulled my fair share of calves in my day but i danm sure dont do it for fun. dont have time to my job AND hers. as far as the 110 years goes you forgot to say "so there!" after it.
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Spoken like a true cattleman I think the guy has a loose wire myself. Wonder how we ever got em to survive and breed without pullin em.
 
Boy I sure am glad that I finally found a board for cattle producers that want to have a serious discussion. Not like every other board thats full of hobby farmers set in their ways and prefer to resort to insults and say everyone else's ideas are dumb. Rather than have an intelligent conversation about it. Pretty happy to have found this site.
 
I'm with Diamond on this one...... I assist first calf heifers at the first sign of delay. They do breed back quicker because there is less stress in the first birth. We sell alot of bred second calf heifers for seed stock and I need them to re-breed on time. Letting a first calf heifer work and struggle only delays the healing and re-breeding. We move our first calf heifers away from the rest so they can be watched more, and do assist as the clock ticks too long.
 
diamond_a":2ypx5nxa said:
Boy I sure am glad that I finally found a board for cattle producers that want to have a serious discussion. Not like every other board thats full of hobby farmers set in their ways and prefer to resort to insults and say everyone else's ideas are dumb. Rather than have an intelligent conversation about it. Pretty happy to have found this site.
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Don't want to stomp in your mud puddle diamond_a but do you seriously think helping the heifer is really helping? Once she has done it on her own, she knows how. She may want you to help every time if you assist her. I gotta say this is a first. I don't have the 110 years experience you have but I have more than half that and I can't say I have ever heard of this practice. I don't have a tool other than my hands and sometimes a rope. I will pull when needed. She gets a note in my book and if I have to help her again, I put wheels under her.

There are things that I do that others here don't agree with but that is their prerogative. If you expect to step in here and tell us something that makes absolutely no sense and not challenge it, you are sadly mistaken.

Don't get your panties in a wad and take off just because someone challenges you.
 
diamond_a":3vyvgdcj said:
Boy I sure am glad that I finally found a board for cattle producers that want to have a serious discussion. Not like every other board thats full of hobby farmers set in their ways and prefer to resort to insults and say everyone else's ideas are dumb. Rather than have an intelligent conversation about it. Pretty happy to have found this site.
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Now I am new here and just a dumb commericial cowboy, are you trying to say you pull calves on heifers to be pulling them.
I don't have time to watch every heifer like a hawk. This almost sounds like one of those barns people send there horses off to foal. I think you got the hobby thing a little backwards.
 
diamond_a what you had to say was interesting. And if a heifer is trying to push and you pull a alittle to help I don't think any harm is done as long as she is trying to do her part.
Thanks for sharing
NOW FOR YOUSE OTHERS KNOTHEADS
They used to have calves without vac programs,pickups to pullum to the other pastures, hot fences to keep where YOU want them etc. etc. etc. and all the other conveniences of modern day times so throwing that out is nothing but trying to be insulting. And Caustic which cave in the mountains do you live in cause thats the way they did it for years and we the most stupid animal species on the face of Gods green earth still managed to survive. Think about this as you crawl under your animal skins tonight.
Jeez Louise some people :mad:
yeah you can get to the end of my chain quick!!!!!!!!!!
And if you want to see how long the chain is look in Tin Town MO
 

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