Buying Bred Cows?

[robertwhite]

Quick question, because I am confused. :frowns:

In the scenario from last weeks local auction below, when they state "per head", are they talking about the momma cow and the unborn calf? In other words is the 640.00 or 684.52 per pregnant cow or the double the price? (pregnant cow and the calf)


Bred Cows Medium and Large 1 Middle Aged

Head Wt Range Avg Wt Price Range Avg Price
1 1110-1110 1110 640.00 640.00 Per Head 1-3 Months

Bred
2 1015-1055 1035 660.00-710.00 684.52 Per Head 4-6 Months

 

[Isomade]

Just one price. Cow calf pairs are sold the same way if the calf is with the cow. One price for the pair.
The first column is the # of head sold, followed by weights, then the low price and high price sold for, they then average this together and give the average per head. But a bread cow is 1 head, and a cow/calf pair is 1 head.

 

[robertwhite]

Just one price. a bread cow is 1 head, and a cow/calf pair is 1 head.

So, in my thinking, that makes pretty good sense, money wise. If I was going to auction to pick up a couple of 500-600lb calves, for the same money I could get 2 mommas with the unborn calves. I know there is a risk to that, but if the momma's are of sound confirmation, and the calves turned out nice, it could be like getting a 4 for 2 deal, no?

Anyone buy that way?

Risks vs advantages?

Biggest question to me is why a farmer/rancher would bring a bred cow to the sale if he only stands to make half the money? Are they just culling the herd to get the junk out?

 

[kenny thomas]

Culling, trading, maybe just needing some money. I sell cows most every week, some are culls, some ok, and some good. All just to make a few dollars. You need some experience to buy good cows though.
Also with a 1-3 month bred cow it will be a long time until payday. She will not calve until next summer and then the calf will be old enough to sell next winter or spring the next year if all goes well.

 

[Isomade]

Some are seed stock operators. They sell replacement heifers, (not yet bred, so you can breed to bull of your choice) or bred heifers. They specialize in this. I run what you call a terminal operation. I hold nothing back of my own, I have to rely on a reliable source like these for replacements. Also theyvhave to worry about carrying capacity of their grass, some will hold back a few heifers but either don't like those particular ones as much , or simply don't have the land to keep them.

 

[jtbakv]

Thats all I do is buy bred cows that are in 3rd stage (6-9 months bred) and sell calves and keep the best cows and cull the others. pretty good profit in doing this. but I'm cheap when it comes to buying. I try to buy at $400-$600 so the calves pay for the cow and I still have the cow to sell or breed back. either way I double my money or almost. You might say I have been really lucky so far no real problems yet. I do usually get older cows though. 8+ years it works for me.

 

[cypressfarms]

So, in my thinking, that makes pretty good sense, money wise. If I was going to auction to pick up a couple of 500-600lb calves, for the same money I could get 2 mommas with the unborn calves. I know there is a risk to that, but if the momma's are of sound confirmation, and the calves turned out nice, it could be like getting a 4 for 2 deal, no?

Right now the market is way wacky. The price of calves is so high mainly because feedlots are buying strong to feed out and sell beef. Cows, on the other hand, are not brought through the same chain (feedlot, butcher, grocery store). Cows are either sold to be immediately slaughtered (read ground meat), or people buy them to raise calves, or to be fattened up and then back to option 1.

Right now a good looking 500 pound calf will bring as much as a 5 or 6 year old bred cow. To some that doesn't make sense, as in don't kill the goose that lays golden eggs. To feedlots, though, they really have no use for adult cows.

Only problem is buying a cow could get you a good moma, or it could get you trouble; it's a roll of the dice unless you have knowedge of the cattle.

 

[fit2btied]

When we end up with open cows at preg check, we temporarily replace them with short-solid 2nd or 3rd stagers to coincide with our normal Feb and March calving season. If all goes well, we sell their calves, put a little condition on them and sell them back as 1st stagers or opens. We sometimes keep one for burger and have it processed with our annual steer in late summer or early fall. During all that time, we are looking for permanent replacements. There's always the risk of complications but we haven't had to do it very often (3 of 23 open this year - worst year in the last 10) and have been lucky so far.

 

[kenny thomas]

Many of the short bred and older cows we have been buying cheap will be bought by the slaughter buyers this year. Prices are really higher this week.

 

[robertwhite]

Really interesting topic, I am learning quite a bit.

 

[fit2btied]

Many of the short bred and older cows we have been buying cheap will be bought by the slaughter buyers this year. Prices are really higher this week.

We were fortunate and bought ours before they took off. What we paid $6-700 for 2-3 months ago, were bringing $8-900 at the last sale of the year a week ago.

 

[Suzie Q]

Cattle are sold for all types of reason. Because of a drought and running out of water. Because of running out of feed because of the weather. Because a little more cash is needed in the farmer's life, etc, etc, etc.

In those cases it has nothing to do with the individual beast because they are sold.

We will be selling some soon. One who is too aggressive in protecting her calf. One who is bottle teated. Another who is from a bottle teated cow. Some steers, and then whoever we decide has to go because we need the money. Although we sell straight to the abbotoir, not at sales.

 

[dun]

The last bred cows we sold were becuase they were tailend breeders. They would fit a lot of herds but were right at the end of our breeding season and we have some replacements that will fill in their slots.

 

[rockridgecattle]

Bred cows can be a good thing if you go to a bred cow sale. Or if at the regular sale barn day and they are advertised as bred cows. Remember though, you get what you pay for.
Some bred cows can be a good thing. For example a farmer who had to downsize due to lack of feed, or getting out of the business.
Some can be a whole heap of trouble and costly trouble at that. You could be buying a genetic predispositioned cow to prolapses. Or you could be buying a cow with a poor udder, low milk production, abortion problems in late term gestation, poor feet, poor calf wean weight, poor feed converter...not weaning a calf of atleast 45 to 50% of her body weight while still holding her own condition. The cow could be a late calver, or a cow which does not cycle on time and regularly. Or the big one is a bad temper or a bad temper just pre or post calving.

 

[TexasBred]

Thats all I do is buy bred cows that are in 3rd stage (6-9 months bred) and sell calves and keep the best cows and cull the others. pretty good profit in doing this. but I'm cheap when it comes to buying. I try to buy at $400-$600 so the calves pay for the cow and I still have the cow to sell or breed back. either way I double my money or almost. You might say I have been really lucky so far no real problems yet. I do usually get older cows though. 8+ years it works for me.

Wow, using that price range for this area you wouldn't have been able to buy anything but a few long horns for several years.

 

[fit2btied]

...I try to buy at $400-$600 so the calves pay for the cow and I still have the cow to sell or breed back...

Wow, using that price range for this area you wouldn't have been able to buy anything but a few long horns for several years.

At our local barn's November sale, they sold a lot of 3 LH 4yr-old 3-N-1's for $1200. That's the only cows they ever sell that cheap. With slaughter prices being what they are now, if a bred cow won't bring a $500 bid, they will sell it as a 'weigh' cow, pretty much no matter what she is.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Esstates also go through the sale barn. It seems pretty common.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The last bred cows we sold were because they were tail end breeders. They would fit a lot of herds but were right at the end of our breeding season and we have some replacements that will fill in their slots.

Same here - - only I leave the bull in for 4 months and sell any late breeders as bred cows. They tend to be either young cows or old ones. I rarely have an open.

 

[angus9259]

Those prices all look low to me. I sold slaughter cows for $700+. That said, I wouldn't want anything I sent to the sale barn - though I realize that's not how the ALL end up there.

Still - early bred cow for $650+$150 (for feed to get to calving) + $150 feed to get to weaning = $950. $950-$550 (slaughter cow value if the bred sold for $650) = $400 price of 500 lb calf. Add 30% (??) risk for buying an early bred salebarn cow and you're about $520 for a 500 lb calf and had to wait a year to get there. For me, it seems like the only way to save on that would be free feed - which you may have in pasture.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Thats all I do is buy bred cows that are in 3rd stage (6-9 months bred) and sell calves and keep the best cows and cull the others. pretty good profit in doing this. but I'm cheap when it comes to buying.

This is the lowest capital approach for stocking up some pasture with your own cattle, but it takes a lot of skill and time in the sales barn. I have gotten much better at resisting cheap cows but I still have a weak spot for colored or out of season heifers... :help:

But cheap cows is not the most "profitable" approach in most markets since your stocking rate is low. Right now I can make much more gross margin per acre running stockers or replacements. Less maintenance grass and a high value of gain.