Buying and reselling holstien bull calves

[longtimelurker]

Please enlighten me to the "proper" way...

No need, you seem to know more than enough. Just curious why would you feed every breed of cattle identically?

 

[MF135]

Please enlighten me to the "proper" way...

No need, you seem to know more than enough. Just curious why would you feed every breed of cattle identically?

The fact that holsteins require a special "proper" ration shows their inefficiency as a breed. Why are holsteins and dairy breeds in general docked so considerably when ran through the ring??? Perhaps stockers realize their inefficiencies in the feed lot.

 

[kenny thomas]

Don't anyone tell Larryshoat. I think he is finishing about 500 holstein steers per year.

 

[novaman]

Why are holsteins and dairy breeds in general docked so considerably when ran through the ring??? Perhaps stockers realize their inefficiencies in the feed lot.

Dairy breeds are not docked. They may bring less money per pound. The reason being dairy breeds typically have a bigger frame and don't have a huge muscle mass. Buyers are not going to pay top dollar when there is more bone. Still doesn't mean it is an inferior product. As far as inefficiencies, there are plenty of feedlots that run nothing but Holsteins and I don't see any of them going out of business. I have no numbers to flash and try to impress. I've run Holstein steer calves as spikers and they have grown out just as fast as the beef steers under similar conditions. The expense in raising Holsteins likely comes in the first 200 days of life whereas a beef would be run on grass and mom's milk.

 

[MF135]

Don't anyone tell Larry shoat. I think he is finishing about 500 holstein steers per year.

If Larry has had the success in the industry to now be able to run these numbers, I assure you he is aware. I assume this man is a diary farmer and as opposed to selling these newborns for pennies, he has established large enough economies of scale to be able to finish holstein calves at a low margin. There is no question, that if you were to ask Larry Shoat if he would trade these Holstein calves at a week old for beef calves, that he wouldn't do it.

If holsteins are as efficient as beef calves, then will someone please grace me with an explanation of why dairy breed steers are docked in the ring compared to beef calves.

 

[kenny thomas]

Larry is not a dairy farmer, he buys baby calves and keeps them until they are slaughtered. He has a contract and knows what the steers are going to be worth at slaughter when he buys them as babys. Raises most of his feed also.

 

[MF135]

Why are holsteins and dairy breeds in general docked so considerably when ran through the ring??? Perhaps stockers realize their inefficiencies in the feed lot.

Dairy breeds are not docked. They may bring less money per pound. The reason being dairy breeds typically have a bigger frame and don't have a huge muscle mass. Buyers are not going to pay top dollar when there is more bone. Still doesn't mean it is an inferior product. As far as inefficiencies, there are plenty of feedlots that run nothing but Holsteins and I don't see any of them going out of business. I have no numbers to flash and try to impress. I've run Holstein steer calves as spikers and they have grown out just as fast as the beef steers under similar conditions. The expense in raising Holsteins likely comes in the first 200 days of life whereas a beef would be run on grass and mom's milk.

Dairy breeds are docked. They do bring less per pound. Holstein calves frames are no larger than those of Maines, Charolais, or Simmentals. Holsteins don't have huge muscle mass because they are a secretion breed. Buyers are not going to pay top dollar because they are inferior. I don't know what market you've been witnessing but big boned thin calves with potenital bring MORE $/per lb, not less. These feedlots that run Holsteins are subsidiaries to the diary where they get their product(calves) for practically free.

 

[longtimelurker]

I wish I was a expert in a field, yet having obviously zero experience in that field.

 

[angie1]

Dairy breeds are docked. They do bring less per pound.

I have been watching this thread with interest, thought a few times about jumping in, but it seems like people might start jumping up and down here pretty quick. In my experience with raising calves, what MF135 says here is so. Also in my experience, they do not finish out as fast as the beef calves, and they are more fragile as bottle babies. I quit buying them long ago (I won't usually even buy dual purpose breed calves). I am NOT knocking dairy breeds ~ but I have raised plenty of bottle babies for the purpose of reselling, and I just feel my money is better returned to me buying the beef calves.

 

[MF135]

I wish I was a expert in a field, yet having obviously zero experience in that field.

I'm appauled that there are people in this forum that don't acknowledge the price disparities between the price of dairy breeds and the price of beef breeds sold for beef. At the sulphur springs auction in sulphur springs, tx, I regularly see the auctioneer literally ask "who wants this calf" when some holstein or jersey calves come through the ring. I have never once seen this happen with a beef calf. Never once.

 

[MF135]

Dairy breeds are docked. They do bring less per pound.

I have been watching this thread with interest, thought a few times about jumping in, but it seems like people might start jumping up and down here pretty quick. In my experience with raising calves, what MF135 says here is so. Also in my experience, they do not finish out as fast as the beef calves, and they are more fragile as bottle babies. I quit buying them long ago (I won't usually even buy dual purpose breed calves). I am NOT knocking dairy breeds ~ but I have raised plenty of bottle babies for the purpose of reselling, and I just feel my money is better returned to me buying the beef calves.

The voice of reason and profit$$$

 

[longtimelurker]

I wish I was a expert in a field, yet having obviously zero experience in that field.

I'm appauled that there are people in this forum that don't acknowledge the price disparities between the price of dairy breeds and the price of beef breeds sold for beef. At the sulphur springs auction in sulphur springs, tx, I regularly see the auctioneer literally ask "who wants this calf" when some holstein or jersey calves come through the ring. I have never once seen this happen with a beef calf. Never once.

Okay Lets start with your prices. I'l try walking you thru this. A 6 cwt beef steer is bringing $105. A 6 cwt holstein steer is bringing $81. 14 cwt beef steers are bringing $98. 14 cwt holstein steers are bringing $87. Do the math.

 

[novaman]

Dairy breeds are docked. They do bring less per pound. Holstein calves frames are no larger than those of Maines, Charolais, or Simmentals. Holsteins don't have huge muscle mass because they are a secretion breed. Buyers are not going to pay top dollar because they are inferior. I don't know what market you've been witnessing but big boned thin calves with potenital bring MORE $/per lb, not less. These feedlots that run Holsteins are subsidiaries to the diary where they get their product(calves) for practically free.

You know I really enjoy a good debate. What I don't like is talking to somebody who thinks they know it all with a head hard as concrete. Just another person to add to the list that KNOWS Holsteins will never add up to a beef animal. By they way, if you would stop and think about what I posted earlier you would figure out that Holsteins have more bone so they dress out at a lower percentage. I said nothing about big boned, thin calves. In fact the Holstein steers I raise for personal freezer meat are fat as can be. Of course with your being biased you won't care what I post, you will always be right and know best. The feedlots that run Holsteins are independant feedlots for your information. In fact, why don't you take a drive around Kansas and Nebraska. You will find plenty of lots full of black and whites and I'm not talking baldies. The point I'm getting at is the profit margins are very similar. You don't have to believe that and frankly I don't give a d@mn what you believe.

 

[MF135]

I wish I was a expert in a field, yet having obviously zero experience in that field.

I'm appauled that there are people in this forum that don't acknowledge the price disparities between the price of dairy breeds and the price of beef breeds sold for beef. At the sulphur springs auction in sulphur springs, tx, I regularly see the auctioneer literally ask "who wants this calf" when some holstein or jersey calves come through the ring. I have never once seen this happen with a beef calf. Never once.

Okay Lets start with your prices. I'l try walking you thru this. A 6 cwt beef steer is bringing $105. A 6 cwt holstein steer is bringing $81. 14 cwt beef steers are bringing $98. 14 cwt holstein steers are bringing $87. Do the math.

I think we're getting somewhere. With the 6wts there is a .24/PER POUND Δ while with 14s an .11/PER POUND Δ. Thats a $144/per head Δ in the 6s and $154/per head Δ for the 14cwts. I can get beef calves to each of the weights both cheaper and quicker.

 

[longtimelurker]

I think we're getting somewhere. With the 6wts there is a .24/PER POUND Δ while with 14s an .11/PER POUND Δ. Thats a $144/per head Δ in the 6s and $154/per head Δ for the 14cwts. I can get beef calves to each of the weights both cheaper and quicker.

You are $68 to the red on the beef calves compared to the holsteins on day one. In addition to that I will never get beef calves fed a proper ration to 1400# faster than I will a holstein fed a proper ration to 1400#. I have seen it thousands and thousands of times. Currently feeding holsteins can be done in my area for less money per pound of gain as well. I do believe you however, when you say you cannot do it. That is not a problem with the holstein breed, but a result of the proper diet YOU did not provide them.

 

[MF135]

I think we're getting somewhere. With the 6wts there is a .24/PER POUND Δ while with 14s an .11/PER POUND Δ. Thats a $144/per head Δ in the 6s and $154/per head Δ for the 14cwts. I can get beef calves to each of the weights both cheaper and quicker.

You are $68 to the red on the beef calves compared to the holsteins on day one. In addition to that I will never get beef calves fed a proper ration to 1400# faster than I will a holstein fed a proper ration to 1400#. I have seen it thousands and thousands of times. Currently feeding holsteins can be done in my area for less money per pound of gain as well. I do believe you however, when you say you cannot do it. That is not a problem with the holstein breed, but a result of the proper diet YOU did not provide them.

IM still looking for a legitimate response to why Holstein steers, regardless of weight/condition, are docked through the ring. This is the first time in my life I have heard someone say they can finish a Holstein not only quicker, but also at a lower cost. Every state's ag extension would dispute these claims.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Any one on here do that? Is there any money in buying the calves for like 50 bucks then reselling them however much time later? Ive been considering doing this to make a little money but was wondering if it was really worth it. Any info would be great. Such as whats the best kind of feed? How long should i feed them milk? How long should I keep them? How much work is it gonna take. Whatever info you could give me would be great.
Thanks
Steve

In most areas there is a lot of potential for your endeavour. YOU are the one who first has to find out purchase price and expected sale price. To make decent money I expect you will need to feed them to 1200lbs or so. Calculate a death loss, and expect a huge time committment. But once the initial milk fed period is up look for performance that will rival beef breeds. Look for IMF that will outperform some beef breeds.

Check the internet, there's lots of info on rations and expected weight gains, and what the longtime lurker is saying is correct for most situations.

Sure hope Larry pipes up in this thread.

 

[angie1]

But once the initial milk fed period is up look for performance that will rival beef breeds. Look for IMF that will outperform some beef breeds.

If someone was starting up a dairy and asked for advice on what breed of cattle to fill their barn with, would you suggest angus or hereford? And why not? They have milk ~ yes?

Different breeds of cattle have different strengths. Period. I am frustrated by the refusal to acknowledge this fact in so many of the posts on here. It is accepted that their are cattle, based on breed, that suffer more in the heat/cold. There is acknowledgement that some dogs make good herding dogs, and hunting dogs based on breed. Why the complete denial that dairy breeds can and do out perform beef breeds in the dairy industry, and beef breeds will out perform a dairy in the field?

Can you eat a holstein?? Yes!! Just like you could milk an angus. But should you do it when trying to optimize a profit?
I don't think so, and I am not going to advise a newby on the board to pull a stunt that I am not willing to do.

 

[3waycross]

Here is a link to almost everything you ever wanted to know about this subject. Read it and weep or rejoice depending on what side of the argument you fall.

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/dairybeef.html#profits

 

[hillsdown]

Here is a link to almost everything you ever wanted to know about this subject. Read it and weep or rejoice depending on what side of the argument you fall.

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/dairybeef.html#profits

Holsteins, in particular, are valued by meat packers because of the consistency of the breed. They have uniform rates of gain and feed conversion and show predictable carcass characteristics in terms of yield, grade and cutability. (6) However, Holsteins tend to be discounted in comparison to traditional beef breeds.

Holstein beef is leaner than most beef, which is important to consumers interested in a low-fat diet—yielding a carcass with 25–30 percent less trimmable fat than beef breeds. (7) "Because they are leaner than traditional beef breeds, dairy-beef steers usually will not produce an acceptable quality carcass if slaughtered beyond 18 months of age." (8) However, dairy breeds tend to marble well since fat accumulates inside the muscle instead of outside. In fact, Jerseys marble better than British or Continental beef breeds. Holsteins also marble well and can produce prime carcasses. (4)

Dairy steers have a rate of gain similar to that of traditional beef breeds, but are 10–15 percent less feed-efficient than beef breeds due to higher maintenance requirements. (5) Holsteins do not yield as well as traditional beef. (9) The dressing percentage of finished Holsteins is less than beef steers since Holsteins have higher ratios of offal and bone, and the carcass itself is worth less since it has more bone than beef breeds.