Buying and reselling holstien bull calves

[hillsdown]

Spelt and spelled mean the same thing and can be used interchangeably. Both are the past tense of the verb spell- meaning to name or write in order the letters constituting a word.

I actually looked that up GA before I razzed 3way and spelt is NOT recognized by any dictionary..

Now me being little miss perfect and all...... :banana: :lol2: as you can read by all my past posts...

FWIW Holsteins do not take longer to finish , they just need a different approach to finish.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

spelt - isn't that some kind of wheat?

 

[ga. prime]

From Merriam Websters:

"Main Entry: (2) spelt
Pronunciation: \ˈspelt\
chiefly British past and past participle of spell"

First entry was for a kind of wheat. Spelled is the Americanized version of spelt.

 

[alisonb]

After they have nursed this cow three days, they all have her scent. I can then turn all 5 out to pasture with no problems.

BHB-How do you ensure that each calf gets it's fair share of milk? I've seen twins do each other in :shock: You must have some plan?

 

[novaman]

FWIW Holsteins do not take longer to finish , they just need a different approach to finish.

Yeah I should have been more clear. I meant that if you threw Holsteins and beef critters in the same pen and fed them identically the Holsteins wouldn't be finished as quickly, in my experience.

 

[backhoeboogie]

alisonb you have to keep a close watch. This cow puts out a lot of rich milk. When they are young, they cannot take it all. The last cycle I only went with three calves because of her age. Should have gone with 4. If a calf seems to be bawling away, the cow can go in a lot with only that calf for a little while but it has never been an issue with this cow. When she stops to let one nurse, all of them hook on. The graft calves are beef calves and don't seem to want as much as her natural calf does.

When I am running 4 calves on her, the biggest one gets weaned between 3 and 4 months. That leaves 3 for another month or so. They get plenty.

The cow gets feed every day which is pro-rated into the cost of the calves. Generally the calves want some feed too while one or two may nurse a little. This helps gage their milk intake as well. If one was persistently wanting to nurse, it would say something.

One of her daughters just calved for the first time Tuesday and looks to have more milk than the dam had. She's half brangus but really gentle. It is strange that she has such a large udder. Two full sisters aren't that way. She's coming here to the house today and I am grafting a bull calf onto her because the bull's dam looks to be short on milk. That bull was going to get banded but someone wants him. Anyway, I am going to see how she works out as a nurse cow.

When I am running more than one nurse cow they go in different lots to ensure no calf is backdoor double dipping. It would only be an issue when they are older. I have only been there a couple of times with my own. Dad used to be there all the time back in the 60's so it gave me some experience.

 

[alisonb]

BHB-I bet the process requires some intense managment. What sort of % saving are you looking at when comparing milk replacer vs suppliment cow feed?
And now we are totally hi jacking this thread, just make sure you don't make any 'spelting' mistakes :lol: .

 

[djinwa]

The thing with Holsteins is it usually takes longer to get them finished than your typically beef animal.

How come?

Dairy animals are not designed for converting feed into muscle/meat. You want less muscle on a dairy cow because it takes considerable energy to maintain, and therefore takes away from milk production.

 

[backhoeboogie]

BHB-I bet the process requires some intense managment. What sort of % saving are you looking at when comparing milk replacer vs suppliment cow feed?
And now we are totally hi jacking this thread, just make sure you don't make any 'spelting' mistakes :lol: .

Actually it is not all that hard. Luck with having the right nurse cow helps too.

I can't tell you in percentage but it is significant. At 100 days you're cost in each calf is somewhere around $75 and that includes innoculations. Just taking a SWAG, I'd say around 80% savings. The calves are way better off. Bigger and better than the others at the farm at that age.

There are other issues. Things like carrying the nurse cows wet through the summer is a bad deal on the cow in my climate.

 

[longtimelurker]

The thing with Holsteins is it usually takes longer to get them finished than your typically beef animal.

How come?

Dairy animals are not designed for converting feed into muscle/meat. You want less muscle on a dairy cow because it takes considerable energy to maintain, and therefore takes away from milk production.

They might not be designed to convert feed to muscle, however if fed properly the they will have a better coversion rate. So again I ask, how come it will take longer?

 

[novaman]

They might not be designed to convert feed to muscle, however if fed properly the they will have a better coversion rate. So again I ask, how come it will take longer?

I have no idea but there are several ideas floating in my head. Most are bottle calves so maybe they get a slower start than the typical beef calf starting out on momma. Holsteins seem to be a slower maturing animal. They are larger framed so it takes longer to fill that frame out. They aren't wired for agressive growth. I'm just throwing some things out there. Maybe it doesn't take as long as it seems to with the couple I raise for personal use. My guess is somebody who knows what they are doing can do a great job at getting them to grow. By the way, I've been told that Jerseys are far slower growing than Holsteins.

 

[alisonb]

Thanks for the info BHB, am going to give it a try sometime .

 

[hillsdown]

They might not be designed to convert feed to muscle, however if fed properly the they will have a better coversion rate. So again I ask, how come it will take longer?

I have no idea but there are several ideas floating in my head. Most are bottle calves so maybe they get a slower start than the typical beef calf starting out on momma. Holsteins seem to be a slower maturing animal. They are larger framed so it takes longer to fill that frame out. They aren't wired for agressive growth. I'm just throwing some things out there. Maybe it doesn't take as long as it seems to with the couple I raise for personal use. My guess is somebody who knows what they are doing can do a great job at getting them to grow. By the way, I've been told that Jerseys are far slower growing than Holsteins.

All I know is that I have never had a problem finishing them as grain finished or grass finished. I even find them easier to finish than a "reg" beef animal because you cannot screw up their ration it seems. I have never had acidosis in a Holstein, but have in a "beefer"..

 

[regolith]

Alisonb - I was just thinking during last milking of the economics of buying autumn calves in my system. I've done it twice, to milk an open dairy cow through the winter when the herd is dry and put her back with the herd in the spring.
First year I bought 2 Angusx bulls (except they both had horns!) for $120 each in April, sold them for $350 each in early September. No feed except grass to them and the cow - my costs were essentially nil apart from the time spent grafting.
Last year I bought 3 herfx and a dairy cross at $35 each in April, sold the herefords for $300 each in August and the dairyx is with my weaner heifers. Both cows are back in calf, one dry and one still milking. The calves ate about 75 kg grain feed between them, and three of them needed dehorning at a few dollars per calf (vet did it while on farm doing other jobs).
The Angus boys I sold with ther horns and balls still on. Plus both groups got their 5 in 1 vaccination and booster.

And then there was this girl, too lame to get on a truck or walk to the shed every day for milking, who reared two of my 08 heifer calves for me. I culled her when the calves were twelve weeks old and ready to wean, she was walking fine by then.
http://cowcalfandvet.blogspot.com/2008/08/retired.html
http://cowcalfandvet.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/family/
My contract can make it awkward doing this sort of thing, but I reckon I'd have cows raising calves a lot more often if that wasn't an issue.

 

[alisonb]

Thanks Regolith- I have some calculating to do before I'm convinced that grafting is the way to go. I bottle feed calves for two months in addition to giving them feed and green grazing up until I sell them at 6-7months. I also sell milk. Have to weigh up the odds of a high producing cow losing body condition, having to be fed suppliment food, losing out on milk sales and grafted calves drinking excess milk etc(too many factors to mention).
I have some cows calving in Aug and the way this year is flying I had better hurry up with my calculations. :shock:

 

[MF135]

The thing with Holsteins is it usually takes longer to get them finished than your typically beef animal.

How come?[/quote]

They might not be designed to convert feed to muscle, however if fed properly the they will have a better coversion rate. So again I ask, how come it will take longer?[/quote]


If fed properly? Im not sure what assumption is being made here but the clear facts are that when fed and raised under identical conditions to, the energy expense per lb of body weight gain is over 10% lower in accretion type (beef breeds) than in the secretion type(dairy breeds). Cattle breeds were initially developed based on their ability to transform their nutrient uptake either into body tissue or milk secretion. Under identical conditions, the average daily gain of dairy calves is considerably less than those in beef breeds. This is elementary. The fact that Holstein calves have to consume 10% more feed($$$) to gain comparable weight clearly depicts their lack of nutrient utilization. I've bottle fed countless holstein/jersey calves and beef calves alike. While there is a greater initial cost in purchasing beef calves, the profit margins are far greater!

 

[novaman]

If fed properly? Im not sure what assumption is being made here but the clear facts are that when fed and raised under identical conditions to, the energy expense per lb of body weight gain is over 10% lower in accretion type (beef breeds) than in the secretion type(dairy breeds). Cattle breeds were initially developed based on their ability to transform their nutrient uptake either into body tissue or milk secretion. Under identical conditions, the average daily gain of dairy calves is considerably less than those in beef breeds. This is elementary. The fact that Holstein calves have to consume 10% more feed($$$) to gain comparable weight clearly depicts their lack of nutrient utilization. I've bottle fed countless holstein/jersey calves and beef calves alike. While there is a greater initial cost in purchasing beef calves, the profit margins are far greater!

I would argue profit margins are not all that different.

 

[MF135]

If fed properly? Im not sure what assumption is being made here but the clear facts are that when fed and raised under identical conditions to, the energy expense per lb of body weight gain is over 10% lower in accretion type (beef breeds) than in the secretion type(dairy breeds). Cattle breeds were initially developed based on their ability to transform their nutrient uptake either into body tissue or milk secretion. Under identical conditions, the average daily gain of dairy calves is considerably less than those in beef breeds. This is elementary. The fact that Holstein calves have to consume 10% more feed($$$) to gain comparable weight clearly depicts their lack of nutrient utilization. I've bottle fed countless holstein/jersey calves and beef calves alike. While there is a greater initial cost in purchasing beef calves, the profit margins are far greater!

I would argue profit margins are not all that different.

Show me your numbers??

Under full feed, both will consume the same quantity of feed, yet the holsteins average daily gain will be considerable less. The energy expense per lb of body weight gain is over 10% lower in beef calves. Holstein calves cost more $ per lb of gain and bring less $ per lb when sold. period.

[ex]
For example we'll use $150 as our feed costs for each alternative. I can buy beef calves for $100, holsteins for $50. Each weighing ~100lbs.
Beef calf feed expense= $.45/per lb of gain. Dairy calf feed expense= $.50/per lb of gain
Beef Calf= $150/per 334lb of gain. Holstein = $150/per 300lb of gain.
Beef calves consistenly bring $.20 more per lb than holsteins of like conditioning. (Beef Calf= $1/lb Holstein = $.80/lb)

Sale Price - (calf purchase price + feed) = Gross Margin

BEEFcalf sale price - ($100 + $150)=GM
$1 @ 434lb - ($100+150) = GM
$434 - 250 = $184

Gross Margin % = (Revenue-COGS) / Revenue = ($434 - $250) / $434 = 42.4%

Holstein calf sale price - ($50 + 150) =GM
$.80 @ 400- ($200)=GM
$320 - $200 = $120

Gross Margin % = (Revenue-COGS) / Revenue = ($320 -$300) / $320 = 37.5%

 

[longtimelurker]

If fed properly? Im not sure what assumption is being made here but the clear facts are that when fed and raised under identical conditions to, the energy expense per lb of body weight gain is over 10% lower in accretion type (beef breeds) than in the secretion type(dairy breeds). Cattle breeds were initially developed based on their ability to transform their nutrient uptake either into body tissue or milk secretion. Under identical conditions, the average daily gain of dairy calves is considerably less than those in beef breeds. This is elementary. The fact that Holstein calves have to consume 10% more feed($$$) to gain comparable weight clearly depicts their lack of nutrient utilization. I've bottle fed countless holstein/jersey calves and beef calves alike. While there is a greater initial cost in purchasing beef calves, the profit margins are far greater!

I would argue profit margins are not all that different.

Show me your numbers??

Under full feed, both will consume the same quantity of feed, yet the holsteins average daily gain will be considerable less. The energy expense per lb of body weight gain is over 10% lower in beef calves. Holstein calves cost more $ per lb of gain and bring less $ per lb when sold. period.

[ex]
For example we'll use $150 as our feed costs for each alternative. I can buy beef calves for $100, holsteins for $50. Each weighing ~100lbs.
Beef calf feed expense= $.45/per lb of gain. Dairy calf feed expense= $.50/per lb of gain
Beef Calf= $150/per 334lb of gain. Holstein = $150/per 300lb of gain.
Beef calves consistenly bring $.20 more per lb than holsteins of like conditioning. (Beef Calf= $1/lb Holstein = $.80/lb)

Sale Price - (calf purchase price + feed) = Gross Margin

BEEFcalf sale price - ($100 + $150)=GM
$1 @ 434lb - ($100+150) = GM
$434 - 250 = $184

Gross Margin % = (Revenue-COGS) / Revenue = ($434 - $250) / $434 = 42.4%

Holstein calf sale price - ($50 + 150) =GM
$.80 @ 400- ($200)=GM
$320 - $200 = $120

Gross Margin % = (Revenue-COGS) / Revenue = ($320 -$300) / $320 = 37.5%

As much as I would like to continue this discussion with you, until you understand how to properly finish a holstein your numbers are useless.

 

[MF135]

Please enlighten me to the "proper" way...