Buy a Fat Bull for Making Cows?

[Stocker Steve]

Looked at some For Sale yearling bull pics. The bulls are all on the same TMR grower ration. A couple bulls have really packed on the fat compared to others. :?
Is this a sign of easy keeping cows, or lower steer growth potential, or both?

 

[dun]

Could be easy keeping but a lot of fat in the calves is still undesirable. You'll get killed at sale time with over conditioned calves.

 

[angus9259]

Looked at some For Sale yearling bull pics. The bulls are all on the same TMR grower ration. A couple bulls have really packed on the fat compared to others. :?
Is this a sign of easy keeping cows, or lower steer growth potential, or both?

Always found this a catch 22 for bulls. For what I do, I love easy conditioning genetics so I'm drawn to the fat bull but I don't want to buy a fat bull. Could lead to feet and testicle issues later. Of course, I could also be completely wrong in my thinking on both counts...

 

[wbvs58]

There is a trend here to selecting bulls with +ve fat EBV's for rib fat and rump fat (we have a separate EBV for rib and rump fat), not so much for the steer progeny but to produce easy keeping heifers/cows. My best cow family is not that easy keeping but they sure are fertile and go straight back in calf so I think that is a good balance between easy keeping and milking ability.

Ken

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Could be easy keeping but a lot of fat in the calves is still undesirable. You'll get killed at sale time with over conditioned calves.

Fat looks good on the outside..that's what sells em. And what a lot of the farmers want..have they had a IMF ultrasound??

 

[Nesikep]

I'll take muscle over fat any day.

 

[Ebenezer]

You want a bull like a fit athlete and a cow like a cheerleader. Otherwise you are dealing with too little correct hormones. You'd rather own a bull that walks the fence and wants to breed than one that eats a lot. Same deal: hormones. Bull tests are traditional and a good way to ruin a bull. Better info would be to moderately develop the bulls and feed out half sibs to collect data and know EPDs for the sire. But just opinions that I practice.

 

[Aaron]

Looked at some For Sale yearling bull pics. The bulls are all on the same TMR grower ration. A couple bulls have really packed on the fat compared to others. :?
Is this a sign of easy keeping cows, or lower steer growth potential, or both?

Try not to be seduced by the dark side of fat show bulls. If you want a good indication of easy keeping cows, select bulls with poor marbling scores. They deposit more back fat and less intermuscular fat which is what you want in fat and sassy cows that stay that way on poor grass. If you get carcass grades back on all your calves, you learn this every quickly. Now if your taking all your calves straight to the packer and have lots of cheap feed for hard-doing cows, then ignore everything I just said.

Neighbor is high cost producer, 300 cows, and selecting hard for prime marbling scores (it's an ego trip for him - he only takes a small portion of them to slaughter) and has some of the hardest-doing cows in the country. On all the 2nd crop alfalfa and corn silage they can eat and still look shelly.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Neighbor is high cost producer, 300 cows, and selecting hard for prime marbling scores (it's an ego trip for him - he only takes a small portion of them to slaughter) and has some of the hardest-doing cows in the country. On all the 2nd crop alfalfa and corn silage they can eat and still look shelly.

Sounds like a conventional dairy operation.

 

[Aaron]

Neighbor is high cost producer, 300 cows, and selecting hard for prime marbling scores (it's an ego trip for him - he only takes a small portion of them to slaughter) and has some of the hardest-doing cows in the country. On all the 2nd crop alfalfa and corn silage they can eat and still look shelly.

Sounds like a conventional dairy operation.

If they milked like dairy cows and didn't need their calves creep-fed to put weight on, then yes.

 

[Nesikep]

Looked at some For Sale yearling bull pics. The bulls are all on the same TMR grower ration. A couple bulls have really packed on the fat compared to others. :?
Is this a sign of easy keeping cows, or lower steer growth potential, or both?

Try not to be seduced by the dark side of fat show bulls. If you want a good indication of easy keeping cows, select bulls with poor marbling scores. They deposit more back fat and less intermuscular fat which is what you want in fat and sassy cows that stay that way on poor grass. If you get carcass grades back on all your calves, you learn this every quickly. Now if your taking all your calves straight to the packer and have lots of cheap feed for hard-doing cows, then ignore everything I just said.

Neighbor is high cost producer, 300 cows, and selecting hard for prime marbling scores (it's an ego trip for him - he only takes a small portion of them to slaughter) and has some of the hardest-doing cows in the country. On all the 2nd crop alfalfa and corn silage they can eat and still look shelly.

That's an interesting take on it, and makes sense to me

Markets can't make up their mind anyhow if they want marbled steaks or lean beef, you're never going to get it right

 

[Aaron]

Looked at some For Sale yearling bull pics. The bulls are all on the same TMR grower ration. A couple bulls have really packed on the fat compared to others. :?
Is this a sign of easy keeping cows, or lower steer growth potential, or both?

Try not to be seduced by the dark side of fat show bulls. If you want a good indication of easy keeping cows, select bulls with poor marbling scores. They deposit more back fat and less intermuscular fat which is what you want in fat and sassy cows that stay that way on poor grass. If you get carcass grades back on all your calves, you learn this every quickly. Now if your taking all your calves straight to the packer and have lots of cheap feed for hard-doing cows, then ignore everything I just said.

Neighbor is high cost producer, 300 cows, and selecting hard for prime marbling scores (it's an ego trip for him - he only takes a small portion of them to slaughter) and has some of the hardest-doing cows in the country. On all the 2nd crop alfalfa and corn silage they can eat and still look shelly.

That's an interesting take on it, and makes sense to me

Markets can't make up their mind anyhow if they want marbled steaks or lean beef, you're never going to get it right

Well guys tell me on here that marbling is all about feeding, so give 'em Select Y4's for feeders and let them turn them into Prime Y1's. Problem solved. :lol:

 

[Allenw]

Fat the other white meat.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

They want marbled lean meat.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Fat bulls melt big time, but they sell. I haven't seen fat hold a bull back from wanting to breed? Fat boys need loving too.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Fascinating set of opinions...

The market can change on a dime. It takes 18 months to go from the birth of one calf (approimately when the next breeding decision is made) until the subsequent calf is weaned.

That's a long time for a buyer to change their mind about whay they think you should be doing.

Which is, in my mind, another reason for trying to breed consistently for a market developed myself! If I'm my own buyer, then I'm much less likely to be surprised when its time to sell!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

If you are your own buyer, not a lot of profit to be made. LOL

 

[Davemk]

Try not to be seduced by the dark side of fat show bulls. If you want a good indication of easy keeping cows, select bulls with poor marbling scores. They deposit more back fat and less intermuscular fat which is what you want in fat and sassy cows that stay that way on poor grass. If you get carcass grades back on all your calves, you learn this every quickly. Now if your taking all your calves straight to the packer and have lots of cheap feed for hard-doing cows, then ignore everything I just said.

Neighbor is high cost producer, 300 cows, and selecting hard for prime marbling scores (it's an ego trip for him - he only takes a small portion of them to slaughter) and has some of the hardest-doing cows in the country. On all the 2nd crop alfalfa and corn silage they can eat and still look shelly.

That's an interesting take on it, and makes sense to me

Markets can't make up their mind anyhow if they want marbled steaks or lean beef, you're never going to get it right

Well guys tell me on here that marbling is all about feeding, so give 'em Select Y4's for feeders and let them turn them into Prime Y1's. Problem solved. :lol:

You don't feed cattle do you? You act like "if I just use the right genetics, I can grade Py2" It is not going to happen.

 

[dun]

You don't feed cattle do you? You act like "if I just use the right genetics, I can grade Py2" It is not going to happen.

It takes both, genetics AND proper feeding. If genetics didn;t play a roll the various EPDs for carcass wouldn't mean diddly. Through the years we've had cows who's calves, no matter who or what the were bred to wouldn;t grade. When we quit retaining ownership we had gotten to where all of our calves were grading high choice with very few YG 3s. But those genetics didn;t just happen, took many years of selection to get that way.

 

[Davemk]

You don't feed cattle do you? You act like "if I just use the right genetics, I can grade Py2" It is not going to happen.

It takes both, genetics AND proper feeding. If genetics didn;t play a roll the various EPDs for carcass wouldn't mean diddly. Through the years we've had cows who's calves, no matter who or what the were bred to wouldn;t grade. When we quit retaining ownership we had gotten to where all of our calves were grading high choice with very few YG 3s. But those genetics didn;t just happen, took many years of selection to get that way.

Yep. It takes both