But we run Gardiner bulls

[oakcreekfarms]

Just a funny story.

I was showing my grandfather some of my new Hereford cows, and some of my future bull prospects. (I should say that he is purely an Angus fan, if it isn't angus or angus source he wants no part of it. ) I was telling him that he should use one of my lower BW bulls on his straight bred angus cows. I went further and told him that due to hybrid vigor he could expect to get added revenue at weaning time. He said, "but we run gardiner bulls, so we can't get better growth". He went on to talk about how they didn't believe in heterosis.

Upon leaving he said "only thing wrong with em is that they aren't black", how typical.

 

[VanC]

I'm sure your grandfather knows infinitely more about cattle than I do, but people get set in their ways. IMO, one of the biggest cardinal sins is to continue to do things that cost you money simply because "that's the way we've always done it". Remaining flexible and looking at new practices with an open mind can be the difference between success and failure. (I'm not talking specifically about your grandfather here, just in general).

 

[Brandonm2]

While it is probably frustrating that you can't sell bulls to your own grandfather......if I had my herd like I wanted them and was comfortable with what I was doing and where I was going; then I doubt that I would change my breeding plans just to make one of my relatives happy either. Since he is using the most popular bloodlines in the Angus breed right now, maybe you can make a few bucks brokering straight black heifer deals to your whiteface bull buyers?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Just a funny story.

I was showing my grandfather some of my new Hereford cows, and some of my future bull prospects. (I should say that he is purely an Angus fan, if it isn't angus or angus source he wants no part of it. ) I was telling him that he should use one of my lower BW bulls on his straight bred angus cows. I went further and told him that due to hybrid vigor he could expect to get added revenue at weaning time. He said, "but we run gardiner bulls, so we can't get better growth". He went on to talk about how they didn't believe in heterosis.

Upon leaving he said "only thing wrong with em is that they aren't black", how typical.

oakcreekfarms-

If you read enough of these posts - long enough - you will read stories that support the same theme as this one! With almost the same verbage - and that make just as much sense (OR - make no more sense) than this one!

It seems to be a given fact: those who establish a routine of "Breed Selection" with ANY species of livestock - or Brand of Truck or Tractor - have that particular "Breed or Brand" so ingrained in their psyche that it becomes IMPOSSIBLE to 'confuse them with Facts'! If it was good enough for 'Grampaw' or 'mu' Daddy' - it is good enough for me! Facts, reality, reason, logic, common sense, practicality, authenticity, truth, certainty, - NOTHING will change their minds because their mind's are already made up! If Daddy voted Democrat - by grabby, THEY vote Democrat - EVEN THOUGH they ar - - - well, you get the point!! It is called "closed-minded!" It is a disease! You must recognize the symptoms or it will drive you out of your freakin' mind! My Grandmother raised thousands of "Brown Leghorn" Chickens because - -". . .their eggs were brown and spotted, and EVERYBODY knows that they are healthier than White Eggs!!" "Wait a minute! What?? I can show you facts that will - -!" "No - No - Don't try to argue with ME, Grandson! I KNOW!!" "Uh Huh! . . .and that Ford truck will pull that trailer out of that bog, and a Dodge won't! Is that it?" Bull Puckey! And that "Black-hided" steer's meat tastes better than that grey, long-eared galoot's meat does, eh? More Bull Pucky!

By the way, oakcreekfarms, ask your Grandfather if his Gardiner bulls have ever had "Funnel Butt" calves!!! :shock: :roll:

DON'T GET ME STARTED!

DOC HARRIS

 

[oakcreekfarms]

I have seen his calves, nothing really to shake a stick at. He only buys the low priced gardiner bulls, and as the saying goes: cheap s&*t ain't good, and good s&$t ain't cheap.

I am not going to change what I am doing, he won't change. He only does what the manager of the herd says to do. And right now that is buy black cows and only run black bulls. I told him that I didn't care if he didn't buy one of my bulls, but at least buy something other then angus bulls. Every year the neighbors char bull jumps the fence and breeds 10 cows or so, and every year those chars out weigh the angus by 100lbs or more. But grandpa is proud of his black cattle, and refuses to change even with the results in front of him. It makes little business sense, and that is what bothers me more then anything. And I assume that most everyone knows at least one person who is the same. In my opinion that is what is driving the (from perspective) depreciation of angus cattle. If you can sell bulls every 30 seconds for a minimium of $2500 why cull.

By the way this is my married into grandpa, which makes it even more tricky to attempt to talk sense into him.

 

[Brandonm2]

A good Charolais will probably add 50-100 lbs on a straight Hereford calf crop too. There is a lot of things that I don't like about Chars; but failing to add hybrid vigour is not one of them. I wouldn't give up trying to sell the old guy a couple of bulls; BUT I wouldn't really expect to ever see success and I wouldn't let his refusal upset me any. My Grandfather straightbred commercial Hereford - then Polled Hereford cows from 1948 to 1981.....LONG, LONG after it was obvious that crossbreeding would add some returns. Straightbreeding is a lot easier and when you have your breed association and your seedstock supplier extolling the virtues of doing what you are doing there is a lot of resistance to any kind of change.

It don't have to be show quality Angus. They are "Angus". They are actually "Gardiner Angus" (and that name even sells down here a thousand miles away). With beef prices what they are now, IF yall actually have rain your way, NOW is the time to sell females. If they are both sound, and healthy, and IF the old man would give me a $50-100 a head finders fee, I would be pushing commercial Angus heifers to everybody who comes out to look at a bull.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

my problem is that he is selling everything across the scales. I can get a premium for good quality angus bred commercial heifers, the problem is that I don't really know the quality of his herd. If he were to let me in on some of the business decisions I would be more then willing to sell some heifers or pairs for him. And I too told him that a straight Herefords should be crossed the same as an Angus. I let him know that his cow herd was fine from what I had seen, he was just losing money with the bull selection.

What I had told him in the beginning was that he should run registered gardiner bulls on half of the cows, of those sell replacement heifers and possibly some grade bulls to locals. With the other half run a different breed bull (preferably a hereford of mine) and sell those across the scales and as replacement heifers as well. This would help to see the increased profit, and show future possibilities without jumping completly into it.

 

[Wewild]

my problem is that he is selling everything across the scales.

How old is he?

 

[oakcreekfarms]

72

 

[curtis]

At the age of 72 i would say let him do whatever makes him happy with his cows or life in general.

 

[BTRANCH]

At the age of 72 i would say let him do whatever makes him happy with his cows or life in general.

NO DOUBT! Enjoy the time you have left together. I would give anything to have my grandpa back, cantakerous and all!!

 

[Ryder]

The boss may be right, or the boss may be wrong. But one thing is for sure, THE BOSS IS THE BOSS :!:
Seems to me that Grandpa is the boss as far as his cattle are concerned.

Quit concerning yourself about it and get on with your business.

PS.
(Say this back to me the next time I need to hear it. :roll: )

 

[Frankie]

He only buys the low priced gardiner bulls,

Is there such a critter as a "low priced gardiner" bull?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

He only buys the low priced gardiner bulls,

Is there such a critter as a "low priced gardiner" bull?

--
That is contingent on whether you consider "High Quality" by the traits and characteristics of the bull, and by the amount of money the bull costs!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Frankie]

He only buys the low priced gardiner bulls,

Is there such a critter as a "low priced gardiner" bull?

--
That is contingent on whether you consider "High Quality" by the traits and characteristics of the bull, and by the amount of money the bull costs!

DOC HARRIS

No, it's contingent on whether there's such a thing as a "low priced gardiner" bull. Quality wasn't mentioned, except for his silly claim that cheap ain't good and good ain't cheap. That's certainly not true the last couple of years with people selling their cow herds and demand for bulls down and not just around here. We've seen some young high quality bulls sell for $11-1500 the last couple of years. That's pretty cheap, IMO.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

This was all just a funny story. We enjoy talking to each other about cattle. We enjoy giving each other little jabs about angus or hereford. I am serious about making him more money, but not seriously mad that he won't change his ways.

 

[mnmtranching]

Up in the north country the herds of Herefords are all but gone.
It took a long time, but the old timers finally realized that turning their herds Black Angus would keep them in business. After a few years of watching their neighors making $100 more per calf won them over.

 

[Badlands]

And now, after 25 years of breeding to Black Angus, the feedbill for these cows that are as big as Simmentals is forcing them to revisit their earlier assumption that more pounds = more profit. They lost heterosis after uprgrading to straightbred Angus, and the cows are bigger.


Badlands

 

[MoGal]

Well, do you suppose Grandpa would let you breed about 5 of his cows to hereford bull ---- just to see if those calves brought more than his straightbred angus??? You already know they will but can you present it to him so that its his idea???

If not, I'd get a few commercial blacks and be subtle but let him know how much you got when they topped the salebarn.

 

[Northern Rancher]

That north country is about 400 miles south of me lol.