Bulls
- Thread starter Doug Thorson
- Start date
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
W.B.-W.B.":2u45l6v0 said:
Interesting comment, but not too definitive. Can you mention a breed which does NOT ..."have some things to get resolved?" To what "specific" things are you referring?
DOC HARRIS
JustSimmental
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2010
- Messages
- 330
Show me the Black ones
JustSimmental":kejc3vdz said:
and away we go :banana: ..........................how about this one. amazing carcass traits, virtually leads the breed, but with that -7 DOC score I am scared to death to use him. :frowns: http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus. ... o=29AN1701
Doug Thorson
Well-known member
Without trying to start an argument, to what are you referring? My bulls won't fit everyone because I breed for cows that work without hassle. I breed for low BW, good udders, pigment, and no prolapses. My cows calve on their own and get the calf up and going without my help or they are gone. The mother cows that I will get is the start and finish of every bull selection I have ever made. If your focus is not there, then I may not have what you want.
L1's still need to work on eyes, but so do all Herefords. If you haven't looked at L1's for a few years, I think we have made great strides in moderating size, adding fleshing ability and milk and improving feet and travelling ability. We are not there yet, but we are not where we were either.
The Line one bulls we used sired daughters that had vaginal prolapses. Both bulls were out of older well proven cows from two highly regarded breeders. I don't care to get into a stone throwing session as I have no ax to grind. I just won't use a bull that has any CL or HH prefixes in the pedigree. Enough said.
Doug Thorson
Well-known member
My Line 1 herd has had one prolapse in 11 years.
My commercial herd has had a few, but every one that I have goes to town along with every daughter, grandaughter, her mother if she is still around, the whole line goes.
It hurts a little to have a prolapse and have to tanker 5-7 head, but that is how you get rid of the tendency.
My commercial herd has had a few, but every one that I have goes to town along with every daughter, grandaughter, her mother if she is still around, the whole line goes.
It hurts a little to have a prolapse and have to tanker 5-7 head, but that is how you get rid of the tendency.
We also have stayed from L1's because at one time they did have a prolapse problem and it was ignored,but I do beleive now that it has been selected out. We still stay away because the Hereford breed needs more than 1 bloodline and it is pretty diffucult to find many herds that do not have some L1 or a lot it.That said we have 1 bull with some L1 at this time. The jury is still out on him as his first calves were just born. But really stop and think what will happen if we all breed only L1! We just have to have some choices available.
user1
Well-known member
WB let me guess, you still wear Bell bottoms and listen to 8 tracks ;-)
user1":qtparwct said:
Whats it to you if I do? Lets just still our head in the sand and pretend everythings fine. No wonder the Angus breed gets farther ahead every day. By the way my last Hereford bull was shipped Jan 2011 and has been replaced with an Angus.
user1
Well-known member
You are the one who came on here all testy. It's a joke, did you not get that or were you just looking for a fight. When that angus bull kicks you but and sends your to the er don't come bitchin. If angus would get rid of some it's problems maybe I'd go there
JHH
Well-known member
W.B. is right. The hereford breed to begin to take back its marketshare has GOT to correct problems. I think most of the prolapse problems are behind us but who knows. With the demand for hereford bulls right now I would bet someone will let one get through the cracks. This is what happened before. Big B.W., bad udders, prolapse, and eye problems.
It isnt easy. Angus has their share of problems also.
Doug, Nice set of bulls. Hope you make lots of money on them. The demand has been very strong here.
It isnt easy. Angus has their share of problems also.
Doug, Nice set of bulls. Hope you make lots of money on them. The demand has been very strong here.
user1
Well-known member
Yep, but all breeds have their problems and I think most people are working on the problems. The problem you have is with one getting through the cracks. Then when a guy has a problem even if it is a fluke, people will remember those problems. The thing is guys remember those problems till the end of time. So problems in any breed or line of cattle can be corrected everywhere but peoples memories. That's just human nature
user1":h6k2qaqm said:
Me testy no way. Just don't like someone pigeon holing me as a cattleman in the dark ages. Any one who knows me knows better. I can take as well as I dish it out. How about you? I ask myself daily what is it going to take to stay in the cattle business long term (10-20) years. I don't know for sure but I do know most of the purebred cattle of all breeds is in for a day of reckoning. Simply put the average genetics of the day are producing cows that are way too big. I will be back from time to time to check on things here.
The aforementioned Hereford bull got culled for bad feet (got footrot in breeding pasture two consecetive years) and bad attitude. Of the 25 or so bulls on this outfit he was by far the most difficult to deal with last year. As for one getting through the cracks I don't know I guess but selling your cull cows that didn't get bred in a normal 60 day breeding season while grazing irrigated pasture- for $10-15 k I guess the cracks are some pretty big craters because someone must have need some poorer fertility cows.
smnherf
Well-known member
JHH":146kuu5w said:
JHH<
I hope you are right, that the problems are behind us. When you go to select bulls or determine which AI sires to use how can you be sure that they are clean?
At this point in time we have no idea what the heretibilitly of prolapse is, whether it is dominate, incomplete dominant or a recessive trait or if it is linked to the female gene or linked to the male gene. We just don't know for sure at this point. Now if past history is an indicator, it doesn't make me feal very comfortable that some of these major seedstock purveyors have learned their lesson. The way the IE deal was dealt with certainly didnt raise my level of confidence. Then when I see the way many guys are flushing 2 and 3 year old cows and haveing cow sales every few years and selling them for tens of thousands of dollar, there isn't much incentive to put selection pressure on the cowherd to clean up these traits even if they are trying to clean it up.
The smaller breeders will pay the price for it though. For instance I have a good customer who bought a bunch of angus cows this past winter that are bred to several sons of a bull that unknown to the buyer has serious questions regarding his "trouble free" status. We have worked to develope a customer base for his F1 females. If the daughters out of these bulls go out and prolapse in 2 years, more than likely the person to be blamed will be me as they probably wont be able to determine the sire of the heifers. They wont blame the guy that raised these bulls, nor the guy who sold the semen on the bull and not the guy who bred the bull. It probably wont make much difference to the big breeder though at least immediately. With the marketing power they have behind them they will just sell the next hot bull to someone who doesn't know any better. But for me I could loose a customer and make it just that much harder for me to sell ANY hereford bull.
Doug Thorson
Well-known member
It is a challenge, but not undoable. First thing is I don't generally buy a bull out of a cow less than 5 years old. I would prefer if the bull was that old also. Better yet is if he was used in several herds and daughters are in production. Doesn't stop me from the right one if he was only used one place, just makes him more valuable. The latest and greatest may be for some, but I would rather stick with tried and true. If the whole herd TPR was run a little different and I had a little more place to do it, I would breed all my yearling and 2's angus and make them raise 2 good baldie calves before they ever got into the bull raising program. That would further weed out problems that could crop up before they ended up in a customers herd.
I used to fix cars for a living. An old mechanic told me "You do 100 jobs perfect and they will tell 1 person. You screw one up and he will tell 10" Same goes for raising bulls. I have no intentions of letting the cracks get any larger, I am trying to seal them.
My neighbors think I am crazy for the amount of culling I do and not checking after dark very often, but I think it is my job to put more pressure on my herd than most of my customers do. Instead of giving my cows every chance to succeed, I give them every chance to fail. The ones that don't fail get to stay.
Kingfisher
Well-known member
Lets just still our head in the sand and pretend everythings fine. What exactly do you mean by that statement? Thanks in advance.
