Bull guarantee question

[M.Magis]

A small regional breed association has an annual sale each May, and though I'm not in the market for a new bull this year, I will be next year. I thought I'd take my boys and see if it's something worth going to next year. I was looking through the catalog and read their terms and conditions. The bull guarantee stood out to me:

Bull Guarantee
Bulls are guaranteed breeders if properly cared for, and not allowed to pasture breed until 18 months of age.

Is this normal? They also state that the time limit to return non breeding cattle is 6 months. So if you buy a 1 year old bull, there's basically no guarantee unless you collect him? Of course I'm sure any reputable breeder would stand behind their own guarantee, but I suspect a lot of the sellers there are hobbiest show cattle breeders with no real terms of their own. Most of the bulls there are 1 year olds, and if I buy one I need it to go to work when he gets home. I can't house a bull for a year or change my calving date, and I wouldn't think anyone else could. Is this odd, or not really worth worrying about?

 

[Jessica06]

18 months is odd. All I've ever seen is that they have to be 12 months before they are put with cows. That's what ours is...of course, we don't sell them until they are at least 12 months and tested so that's kindof a moot point. Sometimes there is also a condition that they can't be with more than 'x' amount of cows depending on their age. Personally, I would be hesitant to buy a bull at a place with a guarantee like that.

 

[Brute 23]

That's non-sense. Either back your product or don't.

 

[lavacarancher]

Only had two bulls in forty years that were not breeders. One was not fertile and of course, we lost a whole season of calving. He was replaced at the sellers expense. The next one had an alternate lifestyle (how's that for being politically correct) but we caught that flaw early and he was replaced before we lost any money. Neither bull came with a "guarantee" but sellers replaced both. I don't buy bulls at the sale barn and I'm really cautious buying them at private sales. Brute is right on the money.

 

[Aaron]

Ridiculous. Bull better be ready to breed at least a small group when he is sold. If not, he should not be sold. Essentially the seller is looking to have you finish raising the bull. I have a hard time getting bulls to do well on semen test before 13 months of age, but by 14 they should be good to go.

 

[Ky hills]

Those terms do seem odd to me. The sales that I have been to, primarily Angus, Charolais, bulls have passed a BSE, and are ready to be turned out. If they are younger calves, then I would think that the buyer would be assuming the risk, but the breeder may oblige with some kind of compensation.

 

[M.Magis]

I appreciate the feedback. I wanted to make sure I wasn't making something out of nothing.

 

[midtncattle]

I don't have my gerts tested until 15 months.

 

[OldCrow]

I have had a 12 month old hereford bull breed 7 cows/4 heifers and he didn't skip a beat. Some breeds mature later than others. Sounds like a very odd demand to guarentee a bull. I could see putting a restriction on the number due to the age of the bull. I've always went by 1 month of age for every cow ranging from a 12 month old bull to 30 months old. After that I expect the window to get a little wider with just one bull for 30 cows. That being said most around here will back their product even when someone runs one ragged.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

Our vet will now conduct a BSE test until the bull is atleast 15 months of age, but recommends 16-17. Doesn't seem that far out to me. I have sold a bull at 14 months and to a gentleman, he had him checked scored a 50, had him rechecked 60 days later and scored a 92.

 

[M.Magis]

My worry is, suppose I buy a 14 month old bull in May. I need him working in July. If he doesn't work, it would be on me. I'm not going to change over to fall calving and I can't feed him until next year. The whole thing just seems odd to me. I ended up going to a different commercial sale, so they may announce details there that I'm not aware of. I'm not even sure if the bulls are tested before the sale. I think I'll need to make a phone call next spring when I'm closer to needing a bull.

 

[angus9259]

My worry is, suppose I buy a 14 month old bull in May. I need him working in July. If he doesn't work, it would be on me. I'm not going to change over to fall calving and I can't feed him until next year. The whole thing just seems odd to me. I ended up going to a different commercial sale, so they may announce details there that I'm not aware of. I'm not even sure if the bulls are tested before the sale. I think I'll need to make a phone call next spring when I'm closer to needing a bull.

Newsflash - it's agriculture - it's ALL on you no matter what. It's a gamble. Best you can do is best you can do. There's no test in the BSE for "libido". A bull could pass a BSE on Monday and get injured or infected on Tuesday and shot for the season. A "guaranteed" bull only means you'll get your money back or another bull minus the cull value usually but you could still be out a calving season if you can't keep a keen eye on stuff and PREG CHECK in a timely fashion. There is absolutely NO SUCH THING as a bull that is guaranteed to actually breed anything and just because you buy a bull doesn't guarantee you any calves from even the most reputable breeder.

 

[Ky hills]

I have mostly a commercial cow herd, with a few registered Angus cows. The registered cows are mainly for raising bulls for my own herd use. I like to have my bulls pass a BSE before I turn them out, usually they are 12-14 months old when checked.
I have BSE done on all bulls before I sell them if they are going to be sold as breeding stock. It is true that all young bulls but will pass a BSE at 12 months of age. I would not sell a bull as breeding stock unless they passed a BSE, it is a pretty good indicator that the bull will be sound. It is also true that things can happen from one day to the next, with cattle, so there truly aren't any complete guarantees with cattle.

 

[M.Magis]

Obviously there are no sure things, but if I have the choice between buying from someone that will be there if needed and someone that won't, it's not a hard decision.