Bull all year round

[cypressfarms]

I know there are proponents for both sides of the bull issue; whether to have a specified time to keep the bull in (like 60 days), and then there are those that keep the bull all year round. I never was a all year rounder because eventually the calf crop will become un-uniform. Well I now have a new perspective.

Let me first say that over the last year I've been lucky enough to secure a contract with some local nursing homes to supply their beef.

I switched over to letting the bull stay with the cows year round. My thoughts were that I needed calves to supply my customers with meat all year, and I expected some cows to continually "move up" their birth date because of their better fertility. Most of the cows will drop a calf once a year, a third of my cows will move up a month or more each year of they are exposed to a bull.

So it's not even the 2nd week of November and I already have 7 calves on the ground. I think I like this spaced timing. The "normal" cows that pop out a calf once a year will still do o.k., but I'll just have to watch for the cows that don't keep that year calving interval up. Heck, I'd really like all of the cows to move up a month or two every year.(These are the cows that I really consider keepers and usually will think long and hard about retaining their heifers) As it stands, I'll have to buy 10 or more calves this December just to keep up with the demand. Hopefully the price will go down somewhat, and I can get some deals over the winter for my next crop due in April. Even if I bought 6 weights in January, I'd still be in good shape come April.

Just thought I'd bring a new view on an old argument.

 

[jedstivers]

For the part of the world you are in I would consider at least pulling so I wouldn't have calves in June,July, an Aug. Years ago we ran bulls year round an the summer calves were always bad.
Another thing I have been thinking is a few months after I pull them putting them back so they breed the open cows then when we preg check we can sell the ones that didn't breed on time but if they catch the second time they sell as breed.

 

[stocky]

We have always kept our bulls with the cows all year. This gives you some calves to sell at various times during the year. It saves on labor with having to keep bulls in a seperate part of the pasture. If you calve in the spring, you either have to sell your calves on the cheapest market or wean them and hold them. This takes alot of labor.
One time, I got the bright idea that we should hold the bulls out and calve the cows together. So, the cows that were calving in January and February were all held back. The weather that year was perfect in Jan and Feb for calving. We started them Mar. 1 and there was a horrible ice storm that week, was bitterly cold and stayed on the ground for almost 10 days and we lost every calf born the first 7 days of the calving, over 1/3 of the calf crop. That was the last time I ever had a bright idea like that. So, we calve year round. Lots of people would not be able to calve year round. Everyone has a different situation and different reasons for doing things they way they do. Good luck with your decision

 

[bigbull338]

by you selling your finished steer calves you learned something.an that is you need calves coming on year round to keep your supply up.we calve year round so we can sell calves 2 or 3 times a yr.this year i had 2 summer calves an 1 fall calf.an im still waiting on 1 fall calver.an i have 2 late winter calvers.

 

[dieselbeef]

i do this also to have a steady crop..but it only works if you have a kinda small herd..with 200 or 12 head it would be pretty hard...

my bull missed 6 mos somewhere last yr and it took a long time to find out...

my new bull was too young i think and it also took a long time to find out because we werent calfing within a yr from the last one...2 yrs so far of being out of schedule...and only having 2 calves instead of 10..right now i dont know when im gonna git some calfs from my new bull..he went in in january but he was only 16 mos when i let him in with the cows..

my herd is a mess....

gary

 

[cow pollinater]

Out here feed is our limiting factor as we only have enough grass to give us a six to eight month season but I do know of one commercial guy who has a little irrigated pasture that runs bulls year-round and swears by it. I see a few of his off-beat calves every time I go to the sale and they always seem to bring a fair price. By his logic you also save on labor since you only have a few at a time to work so you can do it all yourself.

 

[Beef11]

To me a big part of the year round bull argument is that 7 out of 10 herds that run the bull year round are herds that are very poorly managed. In the deep south this may be different. I would worry about poorly performing cows being allowed to stay in the herd for years and fly under the radar as an underperformer. The other difficulty would be managing nutritional demands of a group of cows that are in all stages of pregnancy and lactation simultaneously.

 

[KNERSIE]

I calf only for two months and managing the health program to fit in with other jobs on the farm is a struggle at times, how do you do it when you calve year round?

 

[novatech]

There is a coordination in cattle management between calving season, pasture management, and ones market that must be met in any and all beef cattle operations. The lack of control of this is simply a lack of management. Running a bull year round leaves the management up to the bull or cow and is pot luck at acquiring the right number of calves to fit your market when needed. Seasonal changes in forage availability can not be taken advantage of. The economics, IMO, are that there are two separate operations. One is a cow calf operation, and the second is a finishing operation to fill the needs of your market. By running a bull year round there will always be times when you have to many or to few calves ready for your market. By controlling your breeding season you will have calves to sell at the optimal time. You will have money to buy calves as needed to fit your market when needed.
This is why there are people in the cow calf business and others that are buyers filling the needs of there customers at the proper time. To fit both under one roof, with proper management, would take a very big operation to maximize profits, or have any at all.

 

[Angus Cowman]

I know a guy that does something similiar to this he has about 30 cows and he makes it work BUT the way he does it it takes ALOT of management

whenever a small group of cows ( usually 4-6)calve and that calf reaches apprximately 40-60 days of age he puts the cows in the pasture with the bull and they stay there 60 days and then he puts them back into a separate pasture and they stay there til he preg checks them about 30 days later
they then go back with the herd
and he does this yr round, he is breeding yr round but he is still controlling his breeding program and managing his cows to know which ones are working and which ones aren't
also he finds out if his Bull is working and doesn't miss several calves before he finds out

his bull works yr round with a few breaks in between plus he knows when which cow is supposed to calf
He has a calving pasture and about 2 weeks before a cow is supposed to calve he moves the heavy bred cows to that pasture so he isn't looking for calves all over
he is always calving and always breeding put he manages his program intensively

 

[Stocker Steve]

I am moving a fall and early spring herd to a may/june/july calve on grass schedule. I leave the bull in for 4 to 6 months and end up with about 98% preg rate, but I sell a couple late breeders to a fall calving herd each year to tighten things up. I sell the big calves in January and add a couple summer calves to the stocker herd.

I don't see an issue leaving the bull in but he should not have much work after a couple months. This can increase the value of your culls - - you just need to think about culling late bred cows rather than opens.

 

[tripleBfarms]

I got some of that ice storm that Stocky was talking about. We lost 5 calves in March. We used to hold the bull out so we would have no calves from Dec. 15 to Feb 15, since that is usually the coldest part of winter around here. Won't do it anymore. I'd rather not have all my eggs in one basket, and have a few calves along the way through the year. This works fine if you live close to a good market, since you will have to haul off 3 or 4 loads a year. Also, my dad and I both work full time jobs off the farm and we have limited time to check cows while calving, and being spaced out is a huge help. As far as prices go, around here we usually do well the last sale before Thanksgiving, and also a few weeks after Christmas. We will hold everything else over till Aug when the prices are the best.

 

[Suzie Q]

We have our bull in our herd all year round and I think that helps make a happy quiet bull.

We do not get snow or ice so don't have to worry about that. We are also not too big and make our own hay so can feed throughout winter.

 

[MF135]

A late calf beats an open cow any day.

 

[cypressfarms]

The jury is still out on this one, but I'm leaning to keeping bull (s) year round. I'll still keep track of each cow's calving, still work twice a year, still cull open/infertile cows, still manage basically the same. The difference would be that I would within a few years have some cows that moved up to late summer. The "normal" cows would still calve close to their regular yearly time frame.

If I let the herd go to a more spread calving I will have enough calves myself to more than supply the nursing homes. If not, then I'll need to buy calves for part of the year to have a steady supply of "finished" calves. That could work out if I sell calves in August as before and buy feeder calves in December to take advantage of the price differences...

To be continued.

 

[Kingfisher]

The other difficulty would be managing nutritional demands of a group of cows that are in all stages of pregnancy and lactation simultaneously.[/quote]

I will agree with that. That's one of the problems with my friends small group of cows. He has no way to manage their intake. I can
see where it would be a real costly problem with as few as 40-50 head.

 

[Suzie Q]

I have different paddocks. That fixes that problem.

 

[Caustic Burno]

To me a big part of the year round bull argument is that 7 out of 10 herds that run the bull year round are herds that are very poorly managed. In the deep south this may be different. I would worry about poorly performing cows being allowed to stay in the herd for years and fly under the radar as an underperformer. The other difficulty would be managing nutritional demands of a group of cows that are in all stages of pregnancy and lactation simultaneously.

This is an enviroment issue not a management issue. Very easy to keep up with a cows performance and calving schedule. Weather is not a factor to calving here in the south. There is no right or wrong way here this is like the little boy that kissed the calf on the ass everybody to his own taste.

 

[backhoeboogie]

To me a big part of the year round bull argument is that 7 out of 10 herds that run the bull year round are herds that are very poorly managed. In the deep south this may be different. I would worry about poorly performing cows being allowed to stay in the herd for years and fly under the radar as an underperformer. The other difficulty would be managing nutritional demands of a group of cows that are in all stages of pregnancy and lactation simultaneously.

Poor management would be pulling my bull such that any of the neighboring 1/2 dozen plus neighbor's bulls would be breeding my cows. I have already had heifers bred to young by a neighbor's terminal angus bull.

Poor performing cows are culled. 7 went a few months back - and I need another 50 head or so.

The cows are feeding on "horse quality" coastal pasture 9 months out of the year. "Horse quality" hay the rest of the year. They also get rotated onto wheat, oat and rye pastures in the dead of the winter. Where are the "nutritional needs" being compromised? They get salt and lose mineral and all look to be in excellent condition. They are worked twice a year. Some calve on 10 1/2 month intervals like clock work. Most are cavling on 11 to 11 1/2 month intervals. The oldest cows in the herd are 7 years old. Hence, there are no teeth issues.

Flies and drought are the biggest problems here.

I don't consider north central Texas to be the "deep south".

If a person is willing to record, manage, castrate, innoculate, plant, hay, prevent neighbor bulls from breeding his herd, maintains healthy cattle, and is deep into the black, he/she is distant from being poor management. I have seen the other kinds too.

 

[bigbull338]

i know my herd isnt poorly managed.i had a cow make a false bagg at 6 months bred.an i thought she had calved an lost calf.so i put her on the cull list.an she calved a few days ago with a 374 day CI.so im glad i held off on culling her.