What are some bulls that are known to produce calm and docile momma cows. I'm looking for a little more than just what the epd would indicate. Anybody have any hands on experience? Seems like there are quite a few high headed sires out there these days….
Breeding to create calm cows
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What breed?
Angus
I don't AI, so I rarely respond to posts on this group, but . . . .
EPD's are a useful tool but the operative term is "estimated".
Calm and docile mama cows were generally calm calves, raised by calm cows in an environment where they are used to people (primarily you) and worked in a non-stressful manner (don't go rodeo and expect them to trust you). Docility is a huge factor in the bulls I select - for natural breeding. But you can't just look at the bull's EPD's. What are the cows like you're planning to breed? If they're already high-headed, good luck getting replacements out of them.
EPD's are a useful tool but the operative term is "estimated".
Calm and docile mama cows were generally calm calves, raised by calm cows in an environment where they are used to people (primarily you) and worked in a non-stressful manner (don't go rodeo and expect them to trust you). Docility is a huge factor in the bulls I select - for natural breeding. But you can't just look at the bull's EPD's. What are the cows like you're planning to breed? If they're already high-headed, good luck getting replacements out of them.
wbvs58
Well-known member
I really think it is how you deal with them. I use a lot of different Angus semen from the US and by the time the heifers come through my processes they are all very quite and calm to deal with. They are familiar with me from a young age in the paddock on their mothers then after weaning I supplement their feed over winter and then synchronise them to AI in spring, they are weighed regularly so I can keep an eye on their weights being where I want them but also to have them familiar with the process of going through the yards. Never any yelling and yahooing with them just calmly talk to them, they are a dream to deal with if the need arises during calving. Yes there are variations amongst them and po0ssibly due to sire lines but to date all have come good by the time they might need a bit of handling, having calm cohorts helps too.
No doubt you will get people jumping all over this being Angus and people love to hate Angus and given the slightest opportunity will start throwing out there sire lines that are killers in their view, often with no experience of those cattle just hearsay. If they do have experience then maybe they should look at how they develop their cattle.
Ken
No doubt you will get people jumping all over this being Angus and people love to hate Angus and given the slightest opportunity will start throwing out there sire lines that are killers in their view, often with no experience of those cattle just hearsay. If they do have experience then maybe they should look at how they develop their cattle.
Ken
We've used Buford Pathfinder with good luck. We have raised 3 bulls out of him all have been very docile,
Ky hills
Well-known member
I haven't gone the AI route in quite a while, so my knowledge of the more recent bulls is non existent. Back a few years ago, I would recommend Hoover Dam. We also had good results with Power Tool and have retained some sons and grandsons as bulls. I am not sold on the accuracy of docility EPDs have been burned by a top end bull for that trait. I definitely would not go with lower end EPD ones.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
I have BA, RA, and Hereford cows. Get a little crazy out of all of them. The Herefords are well behaved I must agree.
GoWyo
Well-known member
I have found several of the low docility scoring Angus are pretty accurate (EXT, but then Leachman Right Time calves have been some of the most docile). Management can get around a lot of them, but some are just way more alert than others.
Ky hills
Well-known member
@wbvs58 I am one of those that has been critical of Angus disposition, but I definitely don't hate them. In fact if they are docile and over all good quality I'd prefer Angus over anything else. I have found a significant variation in docility of calves under the same management. There are definitely some pedigrees I would not want because if several individuals I have seen at various sales. I do think that for most animals if you raise them in your own environment and management for a few generations I think that turns out better than relying on purchased animals that have been handled differently.
BFE
Well-known member
Definitely not all management. Bought thirty Herefords about ten year ago that had one ignorant biddy in the group. Took a week to catch her she was so flighty. Had to beat the rest to get them to move. Same management from birth.
Ky hills
Well-known member
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Pretty easy to sort out and sell a couple percent of crazies. Why keep them?
We only use bulls with good dispositions but there are always outlier calves. For our black heifer calves it is 10 to 15% culled for disposition, who give us issues when we work them. Not crazy - - but always looking for holes...
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BFE
Well-known member
What do you think I Caught her for? It sure wasn't to keep her.
...I don't see many suggestions. Here is what I am using. photo_link
He's a son of LSF MEW X-Porter 6695D RAA# 3539014. Select Sires stud# 7AR81. The Red Angus Association website does not list a docility EPD. The Neogen profile of my bull scored docility a 7. So far he seems to be a pleasant change from my previous bull. I would guess female progeny of X-Porter would be docile too, but I don't have any.
She's not Angus, but I have a sweetheart black heifer out of Romn Justice NALF# NPM1541731. ABS stud# 29LM0082. Careful using Justice on heifers. In my experience, heifers have difficulty but cows do all right.
FungusProudKY31
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You can learn more what to avoid than what to actually use. What is sort of funny is that the idiots always seem to have great type and function.
Dsth
Well-known member
I used CC&7 several years ago. at the time, he was the highest rated docility bull in the angus breed. every heifer that I got out of him was very docile and have three or four generations that the docility has carried through. As stated in an earlier post, Hoover Dam (a CC&7 son) would be a very good choice. I like to stay in the top 30% EPDs when selecting AI bulls with a relatively high accuracy. I stay away from the younger bulls with high docility unless I like the rest of their EPDs. I agree that EPDs are not always accurate but they are a good tool to use when selecting for desirable traits. I am currently using ABS sires Hickok and Jet Black which seem to be passing on docile calves but mine are not up to breeding age yet but I do pay close attention for docility when we do chute work on the younger calves.
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