Breedback Success on First Calvers

[3waycross]

I am hoping to start a constructive discussion on increasing breedback success on first calvers. Especially where it pertains to AI'ing them for the second calf. This issue plagues me virtually every year and I would like to hear from anyone who has had ongoing success in getting an early breedback in this situation.

My cows are in a system that in my mind should lead to a decent percentage of AI success but it doesn't seem too. We keep the first calvers separate for most if not all of the winter. They get better feed than the main herd, including cake and brewers barley leftovers from a local brewery. They also get the best hay. After they calve this is continued and the protein levels are even upped to some extent. They are still separate until they are brought in and protocalled for AI. We then try to always AI them on standing heat as much as possible and then before turn out the remainder are all time bred. The problem is the 2yr olds just don't seem to want to catch like the older cows. I am at the point of giving them the AI protocol and just turning them out with a bull, so as to not lose a month going in on them for that second calf.

As it stands right now I have 3 first calvers who calved 3 to 4 weeks before the older cows last year and are at least 2 to 4 weeks behind them now.

 

[Rafter S]

Others will disagree, but I sell the calves from my 2-year-olds when they're 60 - 90 days old. The heifers will usually breed back within a week or two. I know I give up some money on the front end, but I believe I make it back over the life of the cow. I just think it's asking a lot of a 2-year-old to raise a calf and breed back on time while she's still growing herself.

 

[Lazy M]

I have had better success with the 14 day TAI for heifers and 2nd calvers than the 5 or 7 day protocol.

 

[cowgirl8]

Others will disagree, but I sell the calves from my 2-year-olds when they're 60 - 90 days old. The heifers will usually breed back within a week or two. I know I give up some money on the front end, but I believe I make it back over the life of the cow. I just think it's asking a lot of a 2-year-old to raise a calf and breed back on time while she's still growing herself.

Hummmm... after a bad breedback year on the heifers the year before, i'm thinking this might be a good idea. Usually we have pretty good luck, maybe out of 30, 5 are open the next season.....but last year out of 40, we had 9.

 

[3waycross]

Others will disagree, but I sell the calves from my 2-year-olds when they're 60 - 90 days old. The heifers will usually breed back within a week or two. I know I give up some money on the front end, but I believe I make it back over the life of the cow. I just think it's asking a lot of a 2-year-old to raise a calf and breed back on time while she's still growing herself.

When you have a small registered operation that is not a practical method. I am shooting for a heifer to be in sync with the older cows on that second calf. I AI my heifers to calve 3 to 4 weeks before the older cows in order to give them a head start to begin with, it still is not getting it done. If I had the means(and the cows) I would have a spring and a fall herd and would automatically move a heifer to the other herd for her second calf and then just leave her there.

 

[3waycross]

Others will disagree, but I sell the calves from my 2-year-olds when they're 60 - 90 days old. The heifers will usually breed back within a week or two. I know I give up some money on the front end, but I believe I make it back over the life of the cow. I just think it's asking a lot of a 2-year-old to raise a calf and breed back on time while she's still growing herself.

Hummmm... after a bad breedback year on the heifers the year before, i'm thinking this might be a good idea. Usually we have pretty good luck, maybe out of 30, 5 are open the next season.....but last year out of 40, we had 9.

I am not having open cows I am getting out of sync with the older cows. I am looking for a 45 to 60 day breedback. Specifically with AI. However like I said I am not sure it's practical. I think maybe the bull is the best way to go, and go back to AI with the 3rd calf.

 

[Rafter S]

Others will disagree, but I sell the calves from my 2-year-olds when they're 60 - 90 days old. The heifers will usually breed back within a week or two. I know I give up some money on the front end, but I believe I make it back over the life of the cow. I just think it's asking a lot of a 2-year-old to raise a calf and breed back on time while she's still growing herself.

When you have a small registered operation that is not a practical method. I am shooting for a heifer to be in sync with the older cows on that second calf. I AI my heifers to calve 3 to 4 weeks before the older cows in order to give them a head start to begin with, it still is not getting it done. If I had the means(and the cows) I would have a spring and a fall herd and would automatically move a heifer to the other herd for her second calf and then just leave her there.

I don't know anything abut registered operations, but that method does get my heifers in sync with the older cows on the second calf.

 

[Lazy M]

Others will disagree, but I sell the calves from my 2-year-olds when they're 60 - 90 days old. The heifers will usually breed back within a week or two. I know I give up some money on the front end, but I believe I make it back over the life of the cow. I just think it's asking a lot of a 2-year-old to raise a calf and breed back on time while she's still growing herself.

When you have a small registered operation that is not a practical method. I am shooting for a heifer to be in sync with the older cows on that second calf. I AI my heifers to calve 3 to 4 weeks before the older cows in order to give them a head start to begin with, it still is not getting it done. If I had the means(and the cows) I would have a spring and a fall herd and would automatically move a heifer to the other herd for her second calf and then just leave her there.

I don't know anything abut registered operations, but that method does get my heifers in sync with the older cows on the second calf.

Don't worry, I'll be happy to buy your 60-90 day cast-offs at market price if you can ship them over here 3-way.. :cboy:

 

[W.B.]

I know of one really good registered operation that ai breeds everything but their second calvers. They feel they just get a better breed up with a bull. It has been proven that a mature bull will help bring cows in to esterus. I normally use yearlings on second calvers but am planning on a two year old this year.

 

[Nesikep]

Welcome back 3way

How much milk are these heifers making? are they producing really good calves?

I can't speak for how this works with AI, but I breed the heifers with the cows, they all calf at the same time, and for the most part they're all bred at the end of the second cycle. They do get a bit of special attention during the winter, better/more hay, but now grain or anything else.

I would be curious to know if you'd have better breedback rates if you bred them EARLIER.. I've noticed some cows get run down as they milk, and they have better conception the earlier after calving you breed them. Last year I had everything bred back at the end of 42 days.

 

[3waycross]

I know of one really good registered operation that ai breeds everything but their second calvers. They feel they just get a better breed up with a bull. It has been proven that a mature bull will help bring cows in to esterus. I normally use yearlings on second calvers but am planning on a two year old this year.

That is exactly what I am thinking. My yearling bull moved a 3yr old up at least a month for this years calf.

 

[Rafter S]

Others will disagree, but I sell the calves from my 2-year-olds when they're 60 - 90 days old. The heifers will usually breed back within a week or two. I know I give up some money on the front end, but I believe I make it back over the life of the cow. I just think it's asking a lot of a 2-year-old to raise a calf and breed back on time while she's still growing herself.

When you have a small registered operation that is not a practical method. I am shooting for a heifer to be in sync with the older cows on that second calf. I AI my heifers to calve 3 to 4 weeks before the older cows in order to give them a head start to begin with, it still is not getting it done. If I had the means(and the cows) I would have a spring and a fall herd and would automatically move a heifer to the other herd for her second calf and then just leave her there.

Sorry, I misunderstood when I replied earlier. I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to sell registered calves that young. I've heard of people pulling the calves off of heifers at the same age for just a day or two to cause the heifers to cycle and then putting them back, but I don't have any personal experience with the practice.

 

[Nesikep]

Do you know if the problem is that they aren't cycling, or they are cycling but not conceiving?

 

[Ebenezer]

the protein levels are even upped to some extent

Energy is probably more important and if you want to help the max you will read up on bypass fats.

Generally, 3 YO will breed later but can catch back up to a 365 calving interval by the time they are 5 to 7 YO if they are fertile. One way to help a heifer is to breed her for the first calf to a less growth type bull for lower milk demand from the calf.

 

[dun]

Last year was the first time in a long time that we had open heifers. But that was a bull problem since 90% of the cows also came up open. We didn;t do any AI last, usually we AI everything once then turn them out with the bull. We don;t dither around with the sync crap anymore since it doesn;t seem to work very well for us. We just AI on observed heats. Our whole management system is contrary to most people. When the 45 day post weaning stage has passed the heifers are turned out with the bred cows and stay there until they start to calve. We used to leave them with the cow herd even during calving but last year we put them in a seperate pasture so they were easier to keep an eye on. Didn;t have to do anything but it made the wife calmer. When we do spring workup, usually late April, everything is put back together. After th first few are AIed, we turn the bull in with the AIed ones and keep the others separate until after they are AIed then they are turned in with the bull after AIing. Some years we will have cows that are just calf makers and not in a category we will ever retain anything from. Those will sometimes be turned in with the bull at the beginning of breeding season and just ignored till preg check and weaning time in the fall.

 

[cow pollinater]

the protein levels are even upped to some extent

Energy is probably more important

:nod: I'd pump the fat to them and not worry as much about the protien.
Also, what is your sync program like? If you don't have a cidr in the mix you need one. In fact if it were me in your shoes i'd pre-sync them with a cidr and then ten days later hit them with lut and breed on observed heats.
Since you're already feeding them different than the rest of the herd, accelerated genetics has a feed additive designed to get them cycling faster. I recently heard from two ranchers who tried it that it made a noticeable difference. I don't know anything about it except that these two guys said it helped.

 

[bse]

Id sync my heifers 3 weeks later than normal instead of earlier. Then after they calve there won't be as much time for them to loose condition before breed back as a first calving heifer. It helps around here and there still right with the cows.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Nice to see you posting Vic.

 

[TexasBred]

Nice to see you posting Vic.

TT since ol' Vic retired he don't visit with us much. Too much time fishing, hunting and chasing the wife around the house I reckon. :mrgreen:

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Nice to see you posting Vic.

TT since ol' Vic retired he don't visit with us much. Too much time fishing, hunting and chasing the wife around the house I reckon. :mrgreen:

I have noticed a trend.