Bottle Babies and Medicated Milk Replacer

[suitep123]

So, we got some bottle babies this week. Due to common issues of survival of these calves, we opted to use Dumor medicated (10 mg oxytetracycline per pound) milk replacer. The label states .05 mg to .1 mg of oxytetracycline per pound of body weight per day. The label also has directions for an accelerated feeding program. If we have, say 70 pound calves and are using the accelerated feeding program (which calls for 10 oz of replacer in 2 quarts of water twice daily); that's .1786 mg per pound per day, which is slightly over-medicating them. The standard feeding program is 8 oz of replacer in 2 quarts of water twice daily. That calculates out to .1426 mg per pound per day, which is still overmedicating them, and cuts back on the amount of milk they get.

All four have been very lively and hungry. Yesterday we had one that did not want to eat in the morning (took in 1/4 of a bottle). He was up and walking and took a full bottle at last night's feeding, not as vigorously as I'd like, but he took a full bottle. This morning and this evening he was first in line and polished it off lickety split.

This morning we noticed that one of them had pretty loose bowels, never saw him go so don't really know if he was scouring or just baby poopies. He's one of the smallest of the four. He readily took a full bottle this morning, but only took 3/4 of a bottle tonight. Tonight we figured out which calf (different one from above) and he's awfully loose. Will give electrolytes tomorrow morning.

The other two calves are little pigs, larger than the other two and have more solid stools than I would think at this age (maybe 1 week old, if that).

Could all of this be a side affect of the medicated feed? Could it be cause from overmedicating them? The electrolyte product I have is Advance Calf Medic which says one packet, twice daily for 2 - 3 days.

Any thoughts? Thank you very much.......
Pauline

 

[dun]

I doubt the oxytet is causing the situation. I can;t find any information on the Dumor milk replacer, what are the other ingredients?

 

[suitep123]

Here's the ingredient list from the label. It might be a little jumbled because the label is two columns but the text editor didn't format it that way........From what I can tell, the little bit that they are being overmedicated shouldn't be enough to be detrimental to them - should it?


For calves \ up to 25C Ibs.) for increased rate of gain and improved feed efficiency.
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
INGREDIENTS
Dried whey, animal fat (preserved with BHA,BHT, citric acid & ethoxyquin!, soy protein concentrate, dried whey product, dried
whey protein concentrate, calcium carbonate, dried skimmed milk., L~lysine, sodium silico aluminate, dicalcium phosphate,
lecithin, ethcxylated mono-digIycerides, propylene glycol, DL-methionine, lecithin, ferrous sulfate, choline chloride,
magnesium sulfa'te, artificial flavor, natural flavor extract, vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, vitamin A supplement,
manganese sulfate, ascorbic acid, copper sulfate, sodium selenite, niacin supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, calcium iocjate,
calcium pantothenate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity!, biotin, riboflavin supplement,
cobalt sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridcxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid.

Follow feeding directions.

NET WEIGHT SHOWN ON BAG 06-9552

Oxytetracycline 20 g/ton
REV, 1204
Crude Protein Crude Fai; Crude Fiber Calcium C a 1 c i urn Phosphorus Vitamin A Vitamin D3 Vitamin E
Min 20.00 %
Min 20.00 %
Max 0.50 %
Min 0.75 %
Max 1.25 %
Min 0.70 %
Min 30000 JU/lb.
Min 5COO lU/lb.
Min 100 lU/lb.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Alice]

I'm with Dun...I don't think it's the medicated milk replacer.

A suggestion...cut back on the amount of water you mix the replacer with. And, of course, give electrolytes to the ones with the runny poop...and probios to all of the calves...daily! And, don't substitute the milk replacer with the electrolytes. The calves need the nutrition from the milk replacer and electrolytes do not have that nutrition.

Alice

 

[dun]

The only part I don;t like is the soy, but at least it's mostly milk or milk by-products.

 

[larryshoat]

What Alice and dun said. That milk with the soy in it has to go. It needs to be all milk! The recommendations on milk bags are for a 100 lb calf and the amounts need to be adjusted accordingly. The 2 calves that are playing around at feeding are either scouring or going to scour, they need electrolytes at noon and bedtime. Follow Alice's advice on cutting back a little on the water in the milk, but not in the electrolytes, mix as directed. Unless divided into smaller amounts feed milk 12 hours apart. As far as the accelerated milk, I think what you are seeing is typical 2 that will take it 2 that will not. So for that reason we delay increasing milk until about day 14 when they can really make good use of it.

Larry

 

[TexasBred]

Only place I've ever seen the brand "Dumor" was feed from Tractor Supply. Purina private labels most of TSC's feeds. Nothing wrong with soy flour in milk replacer other than you have to be more careful (although I prefer a milk replacer that is ALL milk. Both will work well for you. I don't like medicated milk replacers at all.

I disagree with all of you about cutting back on the water given to a baby calf. Water does not scour a calf.... milk replacer does. Cut back some on the amount of dry milk replacer going into each bottle but by all means get all the water you can into that baby. Much better to feed him a diluted formula than one that is too concentrated. We gotta keep him hydrated.

 

[dun]

Only place I've ever seen the brand "Dumor" was feed from Tractor Supply. Purina private labels most of TSC's feeds. Nothing wrong with soy flour in milk replacer other than you have to be more careful (although I prefer a milk replacer that is ALL milk. Both will work well for you. I don't like medicated milk replacers at all.

Soy in milk replacer is to make the buyer feel good about the amount of protein. Once a calf is a month or 2 old it won;t hurt, but they need milk or milk by-produccts wehn they're young. Seen too many calves literally starve to death on that soy crap. At least this stuff has milk by-products listed before the soy.

 

[TexasBred]

Some "soy milk replacers" are better than others. The better ones carry a considerable amount of milk products as well. And true Soy is a cost cutter. Soy milk replacer will often be $20 a bag cheaper than an "all milk" milk replacer. But then some "all milk" milk replacers are sorry stuff too. All depnds on the manufacturer. You can't tell anything much from labels anymore. They are not necessarily listed in decending order as they use to be. Lots of grain rations list "grain products" 1st when in reality there is only enough grain in the mix to justify listing it as an ingredient.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

I had my first bottle baby this year... and I have to say that when I switched from a milk replacer that had soy listed as the 5th ingredient to an all milk replacer... it made a HUGE difference!

As far as the scouring, I went with OptimilComplete/Scour-Ease made by Mannapro which stopped the scours in 2 feedings AND is also a milk replacer. and after feeding the Scour-Ease for 6 feedings (3 days) gave a squirt of pro-bios and off we went!

Ditch the soy, ditch the medicated milk replacer and medicate only when necessary -- worked for me (but remember, I've only done this once and my little heifer is now almost 8 weeks old).

 

[Alice]

Only place I've ever seen the brand "Dumor" was feed from Tractor Supply. Purina private labels most of TSC's feeds. Nothing wrong with soy flour in milk replacer other than you have to be more careful (although I prefer a milk replacer that is ALL milk. Both will work well for you. I don't like medicated milk replacers at all.

I disagree with all of you about cutting back on the water given to a baby calf. Water does not scour a calf.... milk replacer does. Cut back some on the amount of dry milk replacer going into each bottle but by all means get all the water you can into that baby. Much better to feed him a diluted formula than one that is too concentrated. We gotta keep him hydrated.

http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/dpi/nreninf.n ... 323F5CFE02
67D9674A256DEA00273B5A

Excerpt: In recent years, some farmers who routinely feed milk replacer have changed their formulation from 500 g of milk powder in 4 L water to 500 g powder in 2L of water. They have found this reduction in fluid volume, to provide the same quantity of milk nutrients to calves, has 2 beneficial effects. Firstly, it stimulates their appetite for concentrates at a younger age, because there is less distension in their abomasum after milk feeding. Secondly, it reduces scour problems, presumably because of reduced likelihood of undigested milk escaping into the intestine.

When I began doing this, my calves did soooooo much better, especially when I added probios to the formula. Also, with smaller calves, it does help to feed more frequently with lesser amounts. One size does not fit all when it comes to baby calves.

Agree with Dun and Larry...ditch the milk replacer with the soy. Purina makes a really good 22/20 milk replacer, but it's not the same as the Dumor bought at TSC. I'm not saying that Purina doesn't make the Dumor, but the Purina milk replacer I used I got at the feed store that carries Purina, and it was gooooood stuff.

Alice

 

[Hippie Rancher]

http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/dpi/nreninf.n ... 323F5CFE02
67D9674A256DEA00273B5A

Alice

Thanks for the link Alice. I noticed you frequently advised this and frankly was a little skeptical about it. I have been of the opinion (and limited experience) that it was better to cut the milk for a day or two and just give electrolytes as it was the milk causing or aggravating the scours, then to start again in smaller amounts. This makes some sense and is certainly worth trying.

 

[Alice]

http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/dpi/nreninf.n ... 323F5CFE02
67D9674A256DEA00273B5A

Alice

Thanks for the link Alice. I noticed you frequently advised this and frankly was a little skeptical about it. I have been of the opinion (and limited experience) that it was better to cut the milk for a day or two and just give electrolytes as it was the milk causing or aggravating the scours, then to start again in smaller amounts. This makes some sense and is certainly worth trying.

Withholding milk replacer and/or diluting milk replacer was the common treatment for many, many, many years. My brother still swears by it, even tho I can't count the number of calves we had that either starved to death or never really did well or wound up with pneumonia, and I'm convinced it was because the calf was not getting the nutrition it took to withstand whatever virus/bacteria was causing the scours. I even showed him the research, and he'd just grunt and say, "Yeah, so called experts." GAWD he'd get mad at me when I'd go ahead and feed milk to those babies...and when they began to do better, he'd come up with some off the wall reason why. GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

One other thing I noticed was that when I mixed the replacer with less water, the calves would begin drinking water and were quicker to begin eating the calf starter grower.

I don't raise baby calves anymore, but if I ever do, I'm going to try the Optimil Complete/Scour Ease that DavisBeefmasters suggested.

Alice

 

[TexasBred]

Alice if that works then wonderful. Several calf raisersI know on huge dairy operations still hold back some milk but keep the water coming. Even if you give electrolytes you mix them in water. I guess I'm thinking more of preventing or catching them early more than treating. These folks live with their calves so they constantly watch manure, eyes, ears, how they stand and how they lay and with the least little change they know to take early action. Like everything management is the name of the game.

Oh and Purina does have a good "all milk" milk replacer. I doubt they make it as most companies simply furnish specs and bags to companies that specialize in milk replacers but none the less I've used it and it is a good one.