Ky hills
Well-known member
The topic of birthweights in another thread got me to reminiscing about some of our experiences with it years ago.
I had registered Charolais in the late 80's -mid 90's.
We weighed all the calves at birth on scales. The range was 60 lbs-135 lbs.
One 60 pound calf was an anomaly, a 1500+ lb cow that always had a smaller calf usually in the 85 range give or take 2-3 pounds. The other 60 lb calf was a twin to an 88 lb calf.
Outside of those nothing was ever under 75 lbs and very few of those except for an occasional small heifers calf or twins.
Most calves went in the 85+ to 120 range
Had a couple that weighed 135.
One year we AI bred sone heifers to an ABS heifer bull (Charolais) calves weighed 95-110, we pulled the 95# one.
Once in while we would have to pull a calf particularly when we started using a show ring bred 11 frame bull. Ever so often his calves would be what our vet called a dummy calf. Just big and slow to get started. The 135# calves were from him. My mature cows weighed from 1450-1800. They could have those 120# calves easy it seemed. The 135# were unassisted too.
At that time I saw some popular bulls with 150# BW. We were used to high BW but anything over 120# was something I did not like because I feared calving issues for our commercial customers. At the time it was kind of standard since EPD's had not made their way into the Charolais breed on any real scale, we considered under 100# a heifer bull.
If anyone mentioned that they were nervous about using bulls with those BW I always proceeded to try to discourage them from purchasing one of our bulls.
At that time a lot of work had been done to improve calving ease in the breed but it still wasn't where it is today. The local red and white spotted Simmentals at the time had much more of a reputation for hard calving than Charolais. The Limousin breed was just taking off like wildfire and had a bit better reputation for calving than Charolais.
Fast forward to today my cows are Angus and or Hereford, a little smaller and with those same breed make up bulls birthweights are from 50# to 75#. Years ago I did have a registered Angus Heifer to have a 100# bull calf unassisted but that was an exception sizewise.
Lots to consider on birthweights and calving ease. CEM ( calving ease maternal) is a factor that comes into play on the heifers side and makes it more necessary to use a lower birthweight bull in some instances, if the heifer has a higher BW. Some people recommend not retaining heifers from the higher birthweight bulls and just considering them as terminal calves.
I've steered clear of high birthweight females, as well as bulls. I tend to like breed average give or take a little either way.
I've used breed average Hereford bull on a few heifers and been ok.
I have come to believe that when using low BW and CE and probably even breed average for those traits bulls of the same breed as the heifers that the calves should come relatively easy.
I believe the crossbreeding, hybrid vigor effect can significantly affect calving.
I've not noticed a huge difference in calf size from most of the Angus and Herefords I have used.
However we have had some big calves born from commercial black heifers presumably Simmental or Limousin or crosses with those from low birthweight high CE Angus bulls. That's why I'm hesitant to use continental bulls even if CE on British breed heifers.
I had registered Charolais in the late 80's -mid 90's.
We weighed all the calves at birth on scales. The range was 60 lbs-135 lbs.
One 60 pound calf was an anomaly, a 1500+ lb cow that always had a smaller calf usually in the 85 range give or take 2-3 pounds. The other 60 lb calf was a twin to an 88 lb calf.
Outside of those nothing was ever under 75 lbs and very few of those except for an occasional small heifers calf or twins.
Most calves went in the 85+ to 120 range
Had a couple that weighed 135.
One year we AI bred sone heifers to an ABS heifer bull (Charolais) calves weighed 95-110, we pulled the 95# one.
Once in while we would have to pull a calf particularly when we started using a show ring bred 11 frame bull. Ever so often his calves would be what our vet called a dummy calf. Just big and slow to get started. The 135# calves were from him. My mature cows weighed from 1450-1800. They could have those 120# calves easy it seemed. The 135# were unassisted too.
At that time I saw some popular bulls with 150# BW. We were used to high BW but anything over 120# was something I did not like because I feared calving issues for our commercial customers. At the time it was kind of standard since EPD's had not made their way into the Charolais breed on any real scale, we considered under 100# a heifer bull.
If anyone mentioned that they were nervous about using bulls with those BW I always proceeded to try to discourage them from purchasing one of our bulls.
At that time a lot of work had been done to improve calving ease in the breed but it still wasn't where it is today. The local red and white spotted Simmentals at the time had much more of a reputation for hard calving than Charolais. The Limousin breed was just taking off like wildfire and had a bit better reputation for calving than Charolais.
Fast forward to today my cows are Angus and or Hereford, a little smaller and with those same breed make up bulls birthweights are from 50# to 75#. Years ago I did have a registered Angus Heifer to have a 100# bull calf unassisted but that was an exception sizewise.
Lots to consider on birthweights and calving ease. CEM ( calving ease maternal) is a factor that comes into play on the heifers side and makes it more necessary to use a lower birthweight bull in some instances, if the heifer has a higher BW. Some people recommend not retaining heifers from the higher birthweight bulls and just considering them as terminal calves.
I've steered clear of high birthweight females, as well as bulls. I tend to like breed average give or take a little either way.
I've used breed average Hereford bull on a few heifers and been ok.
I have come to believe that when using low BW and CE and probably even breed average for those traits bulls of the same breed as the heifers that the calves should come relatively easy.
I believe the crossbreeding, hybrid vigor effect can significantly affect calving.
I've not noticed a huge difference in calf size from most of the Angus and Herefords I have used.
However we have had some big calves born from commercial black heifers presumably Simmental or Limousin or crosses with those from low birthweight high CE Angus bulls. That's why I'm hesitant to use continental bulls even if CE on British breed heifers.