Breeding Heifers and Calves Birthweight

[Big Cheese]

So some of y'all are saying I should be ok?

 

[highgrit]

HDRider, the younger bull statement was because of size of the bull not the calf. A lighter bull is less likely to break a heifer or cow down. I don't agree with this thinking myself. Because I know my 2,150. lb bull bred a bunch of heifers with no problems at all.

 

[stocky]

Give me a 50 lb calf on every heifer and I will sleep real good

 

[Aaron]

I don't care for them to be over 95 lbs. 85 lbs is my preference.

 

[dun]

I don't care for them to be over 95 lbs. 85 lbs is my preference.

One thing to keep in mind is that the same cattle and breeding that would have 75 lb calves in the less cold parts of the planet would be those 85 and 90 lb calves further north.
Our heifers typically have calves from 67 to 80 lbs, with the occasioanl 90-95 lb calve. Even those bigger calves come unassisted. Last year we had to pull 2 calves, 76 and 80 lbs. The 76 lb bull was from a heifer that didn;t go into labor and never dilated much until we had the calf half jacked out. The other was a dead heifer, one leg was folded across her chest and out all the way to the shoulders. Frozen to death and frozen to the heifer. Had to dump warm water on the back end of the mother to get things pliable enough that we could get the legs rearranged and the calf pulled.

 

[bigbruh]

I've been told that low birthweght is only part of the calving ease equation and that frame and flexibility are also a factor. Can anyone expound?

 

[dun]

I've been told that low birthweght is only part of the calving ease equation and that frame and flexibility are also a factor. Can anyone expound?

Frame doesn;t matter all that much. Shape makes a huge difference. We used to use a bull that threw big leggy calves but they were shaped like a polish sausage, never had a lick of problems from cows ot heifers.

 

[Rafter S]

Give me a 50 lb calf on every heifer and I will sleep real good

I agree. I've had calves from heifers where I could reach around them with one arm, put my hand under the calf's chest, and pick it up like a dog. I'm good with that.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

If the bull has calving ease, no matter what the breed, it should be okay with the bigger roomier heifers. I have been very pleased with the calves our young Charolais bull is throwing. One most recently was out of a heifer that is about 1000 pounds now. Another is out of a 2nd calver who is small and was an oops pregnancy when I bought her. She also did fine.

The calves we have had to pull were from hereford bulls....not even big hereford bulls....but I really think they would have had to be pulled no matter what the sire. Moms just quit trying.

Shape is probably more important that weight. Blocky square shoulders and a big domey head will get stuck. Narrow shoulders and head with a long body can weigh the same amount but it is easier to get thru the birth canal.

 

[Aaron]

I don't care for them to be over 95 lbs. 85 lbs is my preference.

One thing to keep in mind is that the same cattle and breeding that would have 75 lb calves in the less cold parts of the planet would be those 85 and 90 lb calves further north.
Our heifers typically have calves from 67 to 80 lbs, with the occasioanl 90-95 lb calve. Even those bigger calves come unassisted. Last year we had to pull 2 calves, 76 and 80 lbs. The 76 lb bull was from a heifer that didn;t go into labor and never dilated much until we had the calf half jacked out. The other was a dead heifer, one leg was folded across her chest and out all the way to the shoulders. Frozen to death and frozen to the heifer. Had to dump warm water on the back end of the mother to get things pliable enough that we could get the legs rearranged and the calf pulled.

I know what your saying dun, and it is true, but that mindset doesn't really work in my situation as I am not cold weather calving in May/June here or in August/Sept. If I was, my heifers would probably be pushing out 100+ lb calves. Even in August/Sept, which is full on 80+ degrees for the last trimester, a small calf for a heifer is 75 lbs, but most are 85-90 lbs.

 

[Nesikep]

I like them the first timers to have calves in the 80 lb range, give or take 5 lb for bull/heifer differences.. I have had heavier ones, and one heifer had a 110# calf, but that was a hard pull. Once they've had one, I expect them to be able to do 100lb calves without any problems.. that happens to be our average BW around here too.

Last summer I was at a friends place, he had to go to work early, just as I was leaving I noticed a 3 year old LH cross cow was calving (in august), she had a 90ish lb bull calf, and I had to help a fair bit with it.

For me, I know I"m going to be checking on them at all hours anyhow.. I jut hate the feeling when I lose one that I *could* have done something about it, even if the cow should have been able to do it herself.

 

[Supa Dexta]

As seen in the twin thread - 1st time heifer bred simang, 2 bull calves this morning. 79 and 66lbs = 145 total load and had them unassisted.

Either weight alone would have been fine, but I prefer the 79.

 

[Ferd]

We have done ok with a heifer/cow after pulling one. Stretches them open pretty good for the following calves.

Is this common for the rest of you?

 

[randiliana]

We don't cull a heifer/cow just because we had to assist her once. Heifers especially, rarely have problems again unless it is a small (under 75 lbs) calf

 

[Big Cheese]

Here is a calf out of the main bull in question that would be possibly/probably breeding the beef heifers that we have. This calf was out of a Red White Face cow and it was her second calf. We are guessing he weighs about 70 pounds or so. I'm going to let y'all look at these few pictures and see what y'all think about a heifer having this size calf.











He's a really good calf....do you guys think a heifer should/would be able to have this calf easily?

 

[dun]

Don;t see why not

 

[Big Cheese]

After seeing this calf I would think they wouldn't have a problem either. We have a stunted heifer that is about 3 years old that got bred by him by accident and is due any day now so we will see for sure how a heifer handles his calves then.

 

[Katpau]

The acceptable size of the calf depends on the size of the heifer. You can't expect a 700 pound Dexter heifer to deliver the same size calf as a 1300 pound Simmental heifer. Being too fat can also be an issue, so when I give weights I am assuming that heifer is at about a 6 condition score. The size of the pelvis can be an issue, as has been mentioned. I would recommend culling anything with a small pelvis area. That can be a problem even in an adult cow. If you assume a calf should be about 7% of cow body weight it would mean 70 pound birth weights out of a 1000 pound heifer. Although most of my heifers are at about that weight my average birth weight for those heifers has been closer to 80 pounds. Many have been close to 90 pounds. It has been years since I have needed to assist one. The shape of the calf is probably as, or even more important, than actual weight. Choose bulls with high CED (calving ease direct) scores. The score for calving ease is much more important than birth weight. That tells you what percentage of heifers needed assistance and it does not always follow birth weight. When you are pasture breeding to a young bull it is always a gamble. I try to breed my heifers to high accuracy AI bulls or put them with an older bull that has been proven to be easy calving.

 

[Big Cheese]

These heifers are going to be bigger cows. They all average about 750 prolly 800 pounds right now and are a year old. Four of them for sure are going to be big cows based off their mommas. The bull that will prolly breed them (the calf pictured above is out of him) will be proven by the time we get ready to put them with him. We have a lot of cows due soon that will be out of him.

 

[Lazy M]

I agree with what Dun said earlier about pelvic measurements. You can get a pretty fair prediction about how big of a calf a heifer can handle before you decide if she is replacement worthy.