Best Temple Grandin Books for Cattle Handling and Behavior

[TexasBred]

I would encourage you to visit large & small operations to really see how they work & what you believe might work for you (always an open invite here). But trial and error is the best education. And a sophisticated corral design is not necessarily the best design. Our cows are very tame & our portable corral/alley/chute is all we really need. The chute at the barn is a bonus and we literally secure a couple panels to the chute with baling wire to get them in. If you have a large herd &/or your cows are wild/skittish (pick your adjective) you would probably be better off investing in the aforementioned sophisticated (most likely more expensive) corral/facilities. The main thing to consider is YOUR safety.

I don't care to have anything "temporary" when working cattle, however, everything does not have to be top of the line either. Functional and dependable are key words.

 

[regolith]

Was looking on Grandins website and she has a number of books that have this as a chapter or two but not entire book. Any recommendations on which books you found most useful, most cattle specific information before I order one? Thanks.

I can't answer the question as I haven't read several of Grandin's books, but as few others seem interested in answering the question...

I did read one of her books out of the agricultural college library, along with other cattle behaviour books and studies, around twenty years ago.
She discussed aspects of cattle experience that lead to behaviour (the reasons why they behave in a certain way) that still stick in my mind today. The key point was the 'seven emotions' of an animal... I don't remember them all, but they are the key to motivating your livestock to go where you want them to go, eat what you want them to eat, all sorts of things that make management easier.
I've also gained a bit of finesse in cattle handling from reading Monty Roberts books on horse communication. Some of his techniques work with cattle.
But mostly, it's just observing and responding. The books help. Talking to other farmers help. But in our fast-paced world of agriculture these basics can be easily lost - not passed down from one generation to the next, and not learned firsthand. Particularly when we as farmers are expected to abide by laws made by people who have never farmed, or who have never studied animal behaviour the way Grandin has.

I don't know the books you are looking at but my experience is that when several books by one author are available, every one of those books will rehash the main points of the author's knowledge. So any one of them would be a good start.

 

[NECowboy]

All I did get the Animals Make us Human book it had a nice 30 page chapter on cattle on the fear vs seeking behavior, and a little bit on moving, flight zones etc. It was a nice overview of basic cattle behavior and handling from someone who really cares about being humane with farm animals and apparently has worked on a cattle ranch before becoming an animal science professor. Temple seems like a very hardworking respectable lady that overcame a huge adversity (autism) to get to where she is today.

The big but as emphasized previously by others is that it's a good starting point but if you keep some of those things in mind and try to observe based on that that's when you really learn. And observation over countless hours, years of interaction.

But for someone relatively new to cattle it was awesome to get to understand their behavior better. I'm now reading the horse chapter and it is fascinating as well.

Regolith I think my question was very specific maybe too specific. Not everyone has read her books, maybe they've read something else or just one of her articles. That's ok appreciate everyone's posts on here.

 

[TCRanch]

I would encourage you to visit large & small operations to really see how they work & what you believe might work for you (always an open invite here). But trial and error is the best education. And a sophisticated corral design is not necessarily the best design. Our cows are very tame & our portable corral/alley/chute is all we really need. The chute at the barn is a bonus and we literally secure a couple panels to the chute with baling wire to get them in. If you have a large herd &/or your cows are wild/skittish (pick your adjective) you would probably be better off investing in the aforementioned sophisticated (most likely more expensive) corral/facilities. The main thing to consider is YOUR safety.

I don't care to have anything "temporary" when working cattle, however, everything does not have to be top of the line either. Functional and dependable are key words.

Hence the portable system for our needs. It did not make fiscal sense to build permanent working facilities in each pasture.
http://titanwestinc.com/products/okcorral.html Ours has the chute with the palp cage.

Probably should have clarified working cattle at the barn: That is used primarily for an individual cow/calf/bull, especially if we need to keep them contained for a while, not working the entire herd.

 

[TexasBred]

I would encourage you to visit large & small operations to really see how they work & what you believe might work for you (always an open invite here). But trial and error is the best education. And a sophisticated corral design is not necessarily the best design. Our cows are very tame & our portable corral/alley/chute is all we really need. The chute at the barn is a bonus and we literally secure a couple panels to the chute with baling wire to get them in. If you have a large herd &/or your cows are wild/skittish (pick your adjective) you would probably be better off investing in the aforementioned sophisticated (most likely more expensive) corral/facilities. The main thing to consider is YOUR safety.

I don't care to have anything "temporary" when working cattle, however, everything does not have to be top of the line either. Functional and dependable are key words.

Hence the portable system for our needs. It did not make fiscal sense to build permanent working facilities in each pasture.
http://titanwestinc.com/products/okcorral.html Ours has the chute with the palp cage.

Probably should have clarified working cattle at the barn: That is used primarily for an individual cow/calf/bull, especially if we need to keep them contained for a while, not working the entire herd.

Part of what I consider not necessary. A chute is handy but it's also where I do all my palpating without squeeze or palp cage. that's a mighty nice looking setup there but bet you could build a permanent corral for the same money.

 

[wlamarparmer]

Don't really know how I feel on her books. She autistic, know for fact that issue in life is issue, not short lived just communication. Have explored some her earlier studies where she crawled on all four thru alleys and chute to get perception of animal perception. I don't agree with all her concepts, but this aint no PETA lady. Take Your shot, but realize, she is somewhat handicapped, and did not sit down and give up.

 

[Kell-inKY]

First generation cattleman, didn't have my dad or no one else to teach me. I get the experience part but don't mind seeing what someone else has to say and then applying that to my observations. Certainly doesn't qualify me to say I got this versus an experienced cattleman. Particularly interested in learning from these books where Temple Grandin has a great reputation on low stress livestock handling methods and corral design.

Me too, never handled cattle in my life, we didn't even own a dog before moving to the farm 3 years ago. With that having been said, I think you are overthinking it. No doubt you can learn some from reading these books but 5 minutes in a sorting pen and you will get the hang of what it takes to move one where you want without getting them all worked up. I have 6 corral panels and a portable head gate I put in the corner of my holding pens to work the cattle, it works pretty well for my fairly calm cattle. I've watched some good Temple Grandin videos that I liked, but seemed geared more towards large handling facilities, some of it unnecessary for small herds of calm cattle with limited space/money.

I haven't been around tons of cattle people but I've only seen ones who handle livestock in a low stress manner, couldn't imagine doing it any other way?

Also, I'm kind of the opposite on the psychology thing, I've learned far more about PEOPLE by watching this herd for the last 3 years than I have in the 44 previous years of "handling" people situations. No wonder Jesus used so many allegories from nature to explain things.

 

[Dave]

I read one of her books years ago. I don't remember which one it was. I have also heard her speak twice. I don't know that I learned any thing earth shattering but I would say it was worth my time. I did learn a few thing which were put into practice. A person should always be open to learning new things because nobody knows everything. The problem for a beginner is sorting out the good stuff.

 

[NECowboy]

I would encourage you to visit large & small operations to really see how they work & what you believe might work for you (always an open invite here). But trial and error is the best education. And a sophisticated corral design is not necessarily the best design. Our cows are very tame & our portable corral/alley/chute is all we really need. The chute at the barn is a bonus and we literally secure a couple panels to the chute with baling wire to get them in. If you have a large herd &/or your cows are wild/skittish (pick your adjective) you would probably be better off investing in the aforementioned sophisticated (most likely more expensive) corral/facilities. The main thing to consider is YOUR safety.

I don't care to have anything "temporary" when working cattle, however, everything does not have to be top of the line either. Functional and dependable are key words.

Hence the portable system for our needs. It did not make fiscal sense to build permanent working facilities in each pasture.
http://titanwestinc.com/products/okcorral.html Ours has the chute with the palp cage.

Probably should have clarified working cattle at the barn: That is used primarily for an individual cow/calf/bull, especially if we need to keep them contained for a while, not working the entire herd.

Cost? Did you get the 24 foot original or senior?

 

[NECowboy]

Don't really know how I feel on her books. She autistic, know for fact that issue in life is issue, not short lived just communication. Have explored some her earlier studies where she crawled on all four thru alleys and chute to get perception of animal perception. I don't agree with all her concepts, but this aint no PETA lady. Take Your shot, but realize, she is somewhat handicapped, and did not sit down and give up.

That's important especially in stress situation like alleys in chutes and something as silly as leaving a jacket on the fence (God forbid a yellow rain slicker I didn't know cows hated yellow high contrast color til I read it from her) can stress and scare them. I haven't read enough to get her personal opinion but my impression is she wants to help the livestock industry and genuinely loves the animals without being all PETA about them.

 

[NECowboy]

First generation cattleman, didn't have my dad or no one else to teach me. I get the experience part but don't mind seeing what someone else has to say and then applying that to my observations. Certainly doesn't qualify me to say I got this versus an experienced cattleman. Particularly interested in learning from these books where Temple Grandin has a great reputation on low stress livestock handling methods and corral design.

Me too, never handled cattle in my life, we didn't even own a dog before moving to the farm 3 years ago. With that having been said, I think you are overthinking it. No doubt you can learn some from reading these books but 5 minutes in a sorting pen and you will get the hang of what it takes to move one where you want without getting them all worked up. I have 6 corral panels and a portable head gate I put in the corner of my holding pens to work the cattle, it works pretty well for my fairly calm cattle. I've watched some good Temple Grandin videos that I liked, but seemed geared more towards large handling facilities, some of it unnecessary for small herds of calm cattle with limited space/money.

I haven't been around tons of cattle people but I've only seen ones who handle livestock in a low stress manner, couldn't imagine doing it any other way?

Also, I'm kind of the opposite on the psychology thing, I've learned far more about PEOPLE by watching this herd for the last 3 years than I have in the 44 previous years of "handling" people situations. No wonder Jesus used so many allegories from nature to explain things.

My problem is that I've learned to move em in pens and chutes with a cattle prod (usually non hot). Don't know if that's the best or lowest stress way to do it whacking em moderately (probably not lowest stress) so I'm always up to learn the best way. Less stress to me equals less shrink better meat quality safer working. Reading and seeing tips that might help is useful to me.

 

[TCRanch]

I don't care to have anything "temporary" when working cattle, however, everything does not have to be top of the line either. Functional and dependable are key words.

Hence the portable system for our needs. It did not make fiscal sense to build permanent working facilities in each pasture.
http://titanwestinc.com/products/okcorral.html Ours has the chute with the palp cage.

Probably should have clarified working cattle at the barn: That is used primarily for an individual cow/calf/bull, especially if we need to keep them contained for a while, not working the entire herd.

Part of what I consider not necessary. A chute is handy but it's also where I do all my palpating without squeeze or palp cage. that's a mighty nice looking setup there but bet you could build a permanent corral for the same money.

Not sure we could build permanent working facilities in 3 separate pastures for the price of one portable corral. Plus, a permanent facility is considered part of the property but doesn't add value. And depending on how sophisticated, it could be taxable on property taxes (at least in KS, where they enjoy taxing you on all permanent structures). If my hubby & I are killed in an unfortunate cattle stampede, at least our heirs call sell the corral separately. A chute is non-negotiable for me because I like the safety & flexibility of working everything from calves to bulls. But agree, the palp cage is not necessary.

 

[TCRanch]

I don't care to have anything "temporary" when working cattle, however, everything does not have to be top of the line either. Functional and dependable are key words.

Hence the portable system for our needs. It did not make fiscal sense to build permanent working facilities in each pasture.
http://titanwestinc.com/products/okcorral.html Ours has the chute with the palp cage.

Probably should have clarified working cattle at the barn: That is used primarily for an individual cow/calf/bull, especially if we need to keep them contained for a while, not working the entire herd.

Cost? Did you get the 24 foot original or senior?

Just the 24 original, bought it in '09 for $10K but had them customize the alley, thought it was too wide so we have the option of narrowing it. They delivered/set it up, all good. It's nice if you need it in another pasture & only need to catch one or a few, you don't need to open both sides & we haul it around with the tractor. I have no idea on current pricing.

 

[NECowboy]

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Hence the portable system for our needs. It did not make fiscal sense to build permanent working facilities in each pasture.
http://titanwestinc.com/products/okcorral.html Ours has the chute with the palp cage.

Probably should have clarified working cattle at the barn: That is used primarily for an individual cow/calf/bull, especially if we need to keep them contained for a while, not working the entire herd.

Cost? Did you get the 24 foot original or senior?

Just the 24 original, bought it in '09 for $10K but had them customize the alley, thought it was too wide so we have the option of narrowing it. They delivered/set it up, all good. It's nice if you need it in another pasture & only need to catch one or a few, you don't need to open both sides & we haul it around with the tractor. I have no idea on current pricing.

How many animals does it hold at a time and how long are they supposed to last?

 

[TCRanch]

On a side note: One of my friends brought her twins out a couple years ago, the daughter is autistic. It was during calving season, our head cow had calved probably 3 days prior & had her calf nestled in straw about 10 yards away. The autistic daughter had no fear when I walked her up to hand feed the cow (who was a massive 2100 lbs). I pointed out the new calf & the child immediately went over. The cow did nothing, simply watched. The child walked right up to the calf & plopped herself down next to it in the straw. The calf didn't move, the cow continued to watch. The child could not contain herself and flung her arms around the calf. Calf & cow still didn't move (but I was terrified). I'm convinced they somehow sensed this child was special, pure, and meant no harm. I've honestly never read much by Temple Grandin but I don't doubt the ability to connect with animals at a level most people cannot understand.

 

[NECowboy]

On a side note: One of my friends brought her twins out a couple years ago, the daughter is autistic. It was during calving season, our head cow had calved probably 3 days prior & had her calf nestled in straw about 10 yards away. The autistic daughter had no fear when I walked her up to hand feed the cow (who was a massive 2100 lbs). I pointed out the new calf & the child immediately went over. The cow did nothing, simply watched. The child walked right up to the calf & plopped herself down next to it in the straw. The calf didn't move, the cow continued to watch. The child could not contain herself and flung her arms around the calf. Calf & cow still didn't move (but I was terrified). I'm convinced they somehow sensed this child was special, pure, and meant no harm. I've honestly never read much by Temple Grandin but I don't doubt the ability to connect with animals at a level most people cannot understand.

That's really special TC.

 

[TCRanch]

Cost? Did you get the 24 foot original or senior?

Just the 24 original, bought it in '09 for $10K but had them customize the alley, thought it was too wide so we have the option of narrowing it. They delivered/set it up, all good. It's nice if you need it in another pasture & only need to catch one or a few, you don't need to open both sides & we haul it around with the tractor. I have no idea on current pricing.

How many animals does it hold at a time and how long are they supposed to last?

We had 41 cows & 35 calves in it about 3 weeks ago when we weaned. When we moved it to another pasture to work that group the bulls decided to fight but didn't tear up anything - it's pretty sturdy. I don't remember the warranty but we've never had any problems, just have to keep it greased (well, except the time I backed into & subsequently bent the handle on the jack ).

 

[backhoeboogie]

something as silly as leaving a jacket on the fence (God forbid a yellow rain slicker I didn't know cows hated yellow high contrast color til I read it from her) can stress and scare them.

When the vet pulls in, and his truck is painted up like an easter egg, you know you got a rookie.

 

[backhoeboogie]

First generation cattleman, didn't have my dad or no one else to teach me. I get the experience part but don't mind seeing what someone else has to say and then applying that to my observations. Certainly doesn't qualify me to say I got this versus an experienced cattleman. Particularly interested in learning from these books where Temple Grandin has a great reputation on low stress livestock handling methods and corral design.

Over my lifetime I have helped work cows at hundreds of different places. No two cattle men at alike, exactly. Different facilities, different breeds, different goals, and different people.

I don't mind compassion for animals. But there are times when you simply have to get it done. The facilities are no yours but you have to make them work. Its not all fun (no matter what the commercials show).

 

[RanchMan90]

First generation cattleman, didn't have my dad or no one else to teach me. I get the experience part but don't mind seeing what someone else has to say and then applying that to my observations. Certainly doesn't qualify me to say I got this versus an experienced cattleman. Particularly interested in learning from these books where Temple Grandin has a great reputation on low stress livestock handling methods and corral design.

Over my lifetime I have helped work cows at hundreds of different places. No two cattle men at alike, exactly. Different facilities, different breeds, different goals, and different people.

I don't mind compassion for animals. But there are times when you simply have to get it done. The facilities are no yours but you have to make them work. Its not all fun (no matter what the commercials show).

Reminds me of a time when I was kid I helped a family put CIDRs in a couple hundred broncky f1 tigers, the wife insisted I not use a sorting pole on her "babies". Turned a one day job into 2 pretty quick.