Beginning infrastructure

[dun]

As i see more and more health/vet questions and folks not being able to get ahold of a compotent ver, I think maybe vet services within a reasonable distance should be one of the considerations (if possible) as to the location of starting a livestock endeavor. I know that there are times that I sure can;t figure out a health problem and neither can the others that I rely on for advice/information. For a beginner it has to be even more difficult.
Thought I'ld throw that out for opinions.

dun

 

[Crowderfarms]

As i see more and more health/vet questions and folks not being able to get ahold of a compotent ver, I think maybe vet services within a reasonable distance should be one of the considerations (if possible) as to the location of starting a livestock endeavor. I know that there are times that I sure can;t figure out a health problem and neither can the others that I rely on for advice/information. For a beginner it has to be even more difficult.
Thought I'ld throw that out for opinions.

dun

I agree Dun. It's kind of like people, when they move to another area, a question asked is "what kind of healthcare is available" This goes hand in hand with livestock as well.

 

[bigbull338]

good point but most vets now days want to do the dog an cat thing.b/c its easier an safer.an the money is a heack of alot better.not to mention decent hrs.scott

 

[MikeC]

As i see more and more health/vet questions and folks not being able to get ahold of a compotent ver, I think maybe vet services within a reasonable distance should be one of the considerations (if possible) as to the location of starting a livestock endeavor. I know that there are times that I sure can;t figure out a health problem and neither can the others that I rely on for advice/information. For a beginner it has to be even more difficult.
Thought I'ld throw that out for opinions.

dun

Dun, A few weeks ago I visited with Dr. Carson at Auburn Univ. They have a world class vet school and Dr. Carson is the one who interviews each and every vet school candidate and is a big factor in who gets in the school.
He relayed the fact to me that there is a big problem now because there are not enough men wanting to get into vet school because they can go to school for 4 years, get an engineering degree and come out making $80,000 to $100,000 per year. A vet starting out will make approx. $50,000.
Plus the fact that not enough men have the grades for vet school.
Most of the applicants for the vet school are women and prefer small animal or a horse business.
He told me there are small communities that contact him with an offer of a house and facilities for a starting bovine vet practice in their area. The communities will deed the facilities over to the vet after their contract is completed.
The enrollment in the vet school now is 2-1, women over men.
Cattle Veterinarians will be in short supply when some of the olders ones are gone. That's for sure. A very good topic you brought up, and an incentive for young men to study hard.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

People will spend thousands on dog,cats horses. but most cattlemen not all will starve a vet to death.most large animal vet learn pretty quick there was one around here that would charge to answer a ? over the phone.cant hardly blame them look at the fortune spent on education unfortuntely cattlemen will weight to long to call vet & most are beyond saving and you still have a vet bill to deal with.

 

[dj]

I don't think it would be feasible to base a decision on where to locate based on the vets location. Too many other variables,unless your main objective is large animals and only large animals.
I feel very lucky that this area has several vets. And all seem reasonable or maybe to cheap. The one that came this morning traveled 17 miles 1 way,preg checked x3,approx 1 hr time and the total bill? $34. That seems cheap to me. I made sure he got a sack of tomato's before he left. :lol: A plumber gets $45 an hr plus mileage.

 

[Susie David]

I guess that we're pretty lucky up here cause we have three large animal vets in the same practice, one mature gentleman, one in the middle and one young fella...(the kid gets to travel to the sale once a week) and all are good vets. Have a friend who does relief vet work, travels to other towns when the vet wants a vacation...small animals though.
My kids didn't want anything to do with vet school but became nurses like their mother...go figure.
Dave Mc

 

[myakka145]

Ranch properties here are fast becoming horsey subdivisions. Ranchers are quickly abandoning long held properties and developers are ravaging the landscape, creating Florida Lifestyle Ranchettes. The vet I use travels 35 miles to my place, one way. The only other available large animal vets specialize in horses. They charge three times the fees that a bovine vet charges, and unless it is an emergency, the appointment is several weeks in advance. I know that a competent vet could make a big difference, and a good living in this area. Please encourage the young people interested in cattle to go on with their education and help this situation. :nod:

 

[jersey lilly]

My daughter wants to go to vet school and I've done a lil bit of reading about it. She's only 14 but never too soon to prepare. I've read several articles that have stated the possibility of large animal vets only having to go 2 years rather than 6. Also president Bush has somethin in the works that will allow vet students after graduation to sign a one year agreement to go work one year in a place that desperately needs large animal vets and college will be paid for. I think alot of this is in it's early stages, but at least they are taking notice..they do the same similar thing with dental students. If anyone else knows of this or has information about it I'd really be greatful.

 

[denoginnizer]

One has to wonder if animals and animal owners wouldnt be better off if the admittance policies at vet schools were lowered a little. In my opinion , animals would be much better off treated by a vet with a B average vs a person who has never had a anatomy lesson. Sometimes I think colleges actually enjoy and pride themselves on being difficult for a person to gain admittance. Seems like they loose sight of why people should be educted into vet. science. Shouldnt animal health be a goal of the school?

 

[MikeC]

One has to wonder if animals and animal owners wouldnt be better off if the admittance policies at vet schools were lowered a little. In my opinion , animals would be much better off treated by a vet with a B average vs a person who has never had a anatomy lesson. Sometimes I think colleges actually enjoy and pride themselves on being difficult for a person to gain admittance. Seems like they loose sight of why people should be educted into vet. science. Shouldnt animal health be a goal of the school?

So what would you have then, "Grade A" & "Grade B" vet schools?

I disagree with lowering the bar. Because high schools have become easier, I would raise the bar a notch.

 

[jersey lilly]

High Schools have become easier? hmmm when's the last time you tried to help a high schooler with homework?

Also...on the Vet student topic. Texas A&M supposedly has a superior vet school, which I dont doubt...but if your sending your kid there(average tuition of $60,000 a year) to get the first 4 years and a animal science degree, then turn around and apply at their vet school (which is what you have to do.."apply" even after attending 4 years there. They can still turn you down and not accept you. That's a bunch of bs if you ask me.

Another note for those of us living in rural communities....my son's graduating class had a total of 6 kids. When it come time to apply for college...boy were my eyes opened. He graduated with 4 yr grade point average of a 3.75. Applied for college and was turned down.....there reason was because he fell in the lower 1/4 of his class. Excuse me but does that not tell them that these six kids all came thru highschool with extremely good grades?...

Also...how do you know your vet didnt graduate with a low C?...you don't unless he's goofy enuff to tell you. but on the other hand I think his job is alot like our job.. the more you see and do the more you learn. So even if he did graduate vet school with a C - he could be the best darn vet there ever was sayin he has a few years experience under his belt.

These same things apply to your medical doctor..think about it.

Just my opinions -

 

[mitchwi]

I really like this thread!

I have a daughter, she is only 11 but she says she wants to be a vet and I keep encouraging her. We are lucky in our area we have very good and a fair amount of large animal vets. As far as the discussion of lowering the standards or providing incentives, I have a personal experience to relate.

I did not attend college right out of high school, got started with babies first. I wanted to be an accountant tho also. I went to school part-time as we could afford it and I graduated with a double major bachelor of science in accounting and management. It took me several years and I was always working full time as well. After a couple of years with some schooling I was able to have a job working as a bookkeeper, and as I got close to graduating I was hired by a local public accounting firm.

I learned more in my first 6 months with the public firm at my new job than I learned all through my college years. I know that college lays the foundation...but real on the job experience will teach you more than a classroom ever will. IMHO I believe the same would hold true in the veterinary world. I don't think they should lower any standards....as my husband reminds me....nothing worth having is easy to get. I understand the incentives in recent years given for different professions...nursing or teachers. I would agree an incentive for vets sounds like a pretty good idea....

 

[denoginnizer]

One has to wonder if animals and animal owners wouldnt be better off if the admittance policies at vet schools were lowered a little. In my opinion , animals would be much better off treated by a vet with a B average vs a person who has never had a anatomy lesson. Sometimes I think colleges actually enjoy and pride themselves on being difficult for a person to gain admittance. Seems like they loose sight of why people should be educted into vet. science. Shouldnt animal health be a goal of the school?

So what would you have then, "Grade A" & "Grade B" vet schools?

I disagree with lowering the bar. Because high schools have become easier, I would raise the bar a notch.

Ask yourself, If there are less vets will animals and animal owners benefit? I am talking about over all. If your answer is yes than you have spent to much time in the sun. No disrespect to my fellow Alabama neighbor.

 

[Brandonm2]

High Schools have become easier? hmmm when's the last time you tried to help a high schooler with homework?

Also...on the Vet student topic. Texas A&M supposedly has a superior vet school, which I dont doubt...but if your sending your kid there(average tuition of $60,000 a year) to get the first 4 years and a animal science degree, then turn around and apply at their vet school (which is what you have to do.."apply" even after attending 4 years there. They can still turn you down and not accept you. That's a bunch of bs if you ask me.

Another note for those of us living in rural communities....my son's graduating class had a total of 6 kids. When it come time to apply for college...boy were my eyes opened. He graduated with 4 yr grade point average of a 3.75. Applied for college and was turned down.....there reason was because he fell in the lower 1/4 of his class. Excuse me but does that not tell them that these six kids all came thru highschool with extremely good grades?...

Also...how do you know your vet didnt graduate with a low C?...you don't unless he's goofy enuff to tell you. but on the other hand I think his job is alot like our job.. the more you see and do the more you learn. So even if he did graduate vet school with a C - he could be the best darn vet there ever was sayin he has a few years experience under his belt.

These same things apply to your medical doctor..think about it.

Just my opinions -

I really don't think it matters what a Vet's GPA was at vet school. Most of the stuff they do (especially in the first two years of vet school) is raw biological science fact memorization. It lays the foundation upon which the clinical stuff in the last couple of years; but MOST of what a vet actually does is based on his ability to handle the animal, do the necessary procedure to the animal, and be able to diagnose the animal. I think some genius students make bad vets and some avg students make very GOOD vets. Some senior vet students can handle themselves very well in the barns or in the stables.....some (though they MAY be geniuses) really were uncomfortable with the animals. I worked at the vet school's large animal barns and paddocks for four years while I got my animal science degree. My grades were good enough (3.0) and I knew half of the profs at the vet school; but borrowing that much more money (and I paid for all my education myself) just did not seem worth it. Of course I ended up on a massive corporate startup sow farm where I had to deal with a massive PRRS virus break pretty much by myself (NOT a lot of FUN either).

Your son got a raw deal on that GPA. There is so much variety between High Schools that I think college admissions should go by straight ACT (or SAT) score and throw the rest of it (like class rank) out the window.

 

[MikeC]

With the number of students who graduate high school today that cannot even read, you say school is not easier? Some states have an exit exam that is a 9th grade equivalency to get a diploma!!

No, of course we will not be better off with less vets. That is the whole topic of conversation here. Less vets is not good. But to lower the bar for vet school is a bad idea.

The only way to get more vets is for them to make more money when starting a practice. You should take a look at the bulletin board at the vet school in Auburn offering $40,000 to $50,000 for starting vets. That's not much money for that much schooling.

 

[johndeerefarmer]

High Schools have become easier? hmmm when's the last time you tried to help a high schooler with homework?

Just my opinions -

I teach in a community college and the high school kids that we get are pathetic. Most have to spend a year in remedial classes just to get up to a high school level so that they can take their first "real" college course. They can't write, read very well or do even basic math. Don't get me wrong, we do get a few good ones, but not many.

I feel sorry for our world in a few years if these kids are going to run the country...........

 

[Crowderfarms]

High Schools have become easier? hmmm when's the last time you tried to help a high schooler with homework?

Just my opinions -

I teach in a community college and the high school kids that we get are pathetic. Most have to spend a year in remedial classes just to get up to a high school level so that they can take their first "real" college course. They can't write, read very well or do even basic math. Don't get me wrong, we do get a few good ones, but not many.

I feel sorry for our world in a few years if these kids are going to run the country...........

What's even scarier, are the one's who quit school with only a year or two to go, and think they can make a living doing farm work. I've tried to talk to several about not quitting. They think topping Tobacco,cutting Tobacco, hauling square bales, fixing fences, and clearing fencerows is the easy life. I sometimes get better replies talking to a stump.Boy will they be sorry.

 

[jersey lilly]

Ok...my point I made about school not being easier...I still stick to it..the teachers are there..the kids are there...(most of the time). There's just alot of students that don't seem to be motivated to apply themselves enough to learn what's being offered to them. Those are the one's leaving that can't write or read. No I don't agree with letting them slip right on through and get a diploma without the skills needed. At some point in time that teacher noticed that "billy bob" was having trouble. That's when progress reports go home, etc. But I also think that falls back on the parents, are they not paying attention to what their kid is or isn't learning?

 

[madbeancounter1]

When you start talking about education you are asking for another can of worms to be opened.

To be sure there are schools systems that have higher standards than others. But to be fair it's not always the school system or the teacher's fault that some of these kids can't make the grade.

Sometimes it's the kids themselves... Why study for an A when I can go out and have a good time still get a B without studying?... I know this mentality... I had it. There was more to it than that but on the surface I was that kid.

But for a lot of you out there following this thread did you ever stop to think that a lot of it is the parents. If the parents don't show an active interest in the kids school work the kids may get the idea that if it's not important enough for mom and dad why should I worry about it.

I am not saying every kid is going to get straight A's just because they study but even if they get a lower grade at least they tried and that counts for something

In our elementary schools, at least, the parents have to sign a slip that they pledge to spend at least three or four different time periods each week helping their kids with different subjects. Now I am not stupid enough to believe that just because Joe Blow signed the form means that he is going to follow through.

In the past when teachers have sent work home with my kids we have had to sign a slip indicating that either we helped them with it if we were supposed to have done that or that we checked over their work before it was turned in. We have also had to sign a slip indicating that we inspected the homework that was sent home each Monday from the previous week.

I know that this keeps me on my toes because I have a hard time staying on task especially when I can find 3 or 4 other things I'd rather be doing.

As for Vet's and Vet Schooling, we are fortunate to have a large practice of vets of varying ages that do it all large and small.

As for the requirements of getting in to Vet school... do you really think that raising the requirements is going to have the desired effect? If you raise the requirements maybe there needs to be an incentive like a lower tuition rate. The idea of placing a vet in a needy area for a period of time in exchange for tuition isn't a bad one but there isn't a substitution for hands on experience learned from working with someone with a proven track record.

Sometimes that B average isn't an indication of substandard intelligence. Sometimes it's an indicator of someone who had a family and a fulltime job and was trying to go to school at the same time. I'd rather have someone like that as a vet because it tells me that person is responsible.