Barn design advice needed

[Kathie in Thorp]

My :2cents: -- We have a 100+ plus X 60 barn; half the length and the entire width is "critter", dedicated, with a 16W X 30-something shelter on one side, and 16W X 20-something shelter on the other side. There's hay storage in the middle. Each sheltered area goes out into a large dry lot area, and each dry lot area is pasture accessible. The entire barn floor is concrete; grooved for drainage. I cannot imagine trying to squeeze even 30 head of calves into those barn spaces. They need room to feed (which includes pushing/shoving), lay down, move around/exercise; it needs to be kept reasonably clean, allow space for fresh water access, etc. A couple hundred pound calf isn't going to stay that size for long. And in those tight quarters, if one gets sick, they're all going to get sick. I understand your desire, but IMHO, doing it the way you envision is going to bring alot of disappointment and wasted $$.

One of these days, when some other stuff gets cleared out of that barn, the entire thing will be cattle dedicated, but I still would not confine a large group to that barn.

 

[dun]

Seems like you're describing pretty much a free stall dairy barn type of deal. Check through the link and you'll get an idea for the amount of space a cow needs in that environment
http://www.wdmc.org/2005/14Palmer.pdf
You need to keep in mind too that some countrys/states may have differing rules as to space requirements

 

[crazy guy]

ok. let's see this again.
first, i apologize i think i run into a problem bc of my poor english and that is why i didn't describe correctly what i am shooting for.
i do not want to jump in ad start with 100 cows. that was just a reference number.
since right now i didn't had a better way to do it, i made a quick sketch of the cross sectionn of the barn i was thinking about, if you can't see the pic a bit lower, you can find it on this link http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/811/dsc03622h.jpg

<img src="http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/811/dsc03622h.jpg">

that barn i was thinking of making it about 50 ft wide. not very long for now, but keeping the option of extending it longer later on to have more room for more cows.
the lengt - i was thinking of counting 3 ft lengt per 2 cows (one on each side). that would be about 60 sq ft per cow.
i understand that all of you suggest more room, so if i will count 4ft per 2 cow (80 sq ft) will that bbe enough?
so i would keep it the same width and if i build it 40 ft long, i have room for 20 cows (10 on each side)
and if i extend it 12 ft longer in the future, i can add 6 more cows.

i was thinking about having simple barrier all around (with gates at both end of the barn), and building a wall only for winter, out of straw bales.

this is only for calf and cows to be kept when everything is normal and ok. for calving, animals will be removed, and placed in a different barn with individual stalls, but that i a different story. they will be put back couple days or maybe a week after the calf was born, but in such a way that the head count will not rize in same section. we still have a long time to go till we get there. sick animals will also be removed.

i was planing to have road rock/sand mix on the floor. road rock provides a solid surface, sand in between makes it possible for water and every kind of liquid to go down into the ground. i understand some of you suggest sections 2 and 3 (see pic above) to have concrete. that will kick my expenses way up, but if it has to be done, it has to be done. so, is that really necessary, or just recommended?

1wlimo - question about your suggestion:
are you saying i should cancel the tractor drive through in the middle, and move section 1 (see pic) from the side into the middle part, and move the feeding... what the heck is it called... those concrete things where you put the food... move it to the outside part of the building? and when i feed them just drive around the building?

dun - thanks for the link, i am still reading trough that.

so now again: comments, questions, suggestion... besides the fact that i am crazy - i already know that

 

[IluvABbeef]

ok. let's see this again.
first, i apologize i think i run into a problem bc of my poor english and that is why i didn't describe correctly what i am shooting for.
i do not want to jump in ad start with 100 cows. that was just a reference number.
since right now i didn't had a better way to do it, i made a quick sketch of the cross sectionn of the barn i was thinking about, if you can't see the pic a bit lower, you can find it on this link http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/811/dsc03622h.jpg

that barn i was thinking of making it about 50 ft wide. not very long for now, but keeping the option of extending it longer later on to have more room for more cows.
the lengt - i was thinking of counting 3 ft lengt per 2 cows (one on each side). that would be about 60 sq ft per cow.
i understand that all of you suggest more room, so if i will count 4ft per 2 cow (80 sq ft) will that bbe enough?
so i would keep it the same width and if i build it 40 ft long, i have room for 20 cows (10 on each side)
and if i extend it 12 ft longer in the future, i can add 6 more cows.

i was thinking about having simple barrier all around (with gates at both end of the barn), and building a wall only for winter, out of straw bales.

this is only for calf and cows to be kept when everything is normal and ok. for calving, animals will be removed, and placed in a different barn with individual stalls, but that i a different story. they will be put back couple days or maybe a week after the calf was born, but in such a way that the head count will not rize in same section. we still have a long time to go till we get there. sick animals will also be removed.

i was planing to have road rock/sand mix on the floor. road rock provides a solid surface, sand in between makes it possible for water and every kind of liquid to go down into the ground. i understand some of you suggest sections 2 and 3 (see pic above) to have concrete. that will kick my expenses way up, but if it has to be done, it has to be done. so, is that really necessary, or just recommended?

1wlimo - question about your suggestion:
are you saying i should cancel the tractor drive through in the middle, and move section 1 (see pic) from the side into the middle part, and move the feeding... what the heck is it called... those concrete things where you put the food... move it to the outside part of the building? and when i feed them just drive around the building?

dun - thanks for the link, i am still reading trough that.

so now again: comments, questions, suggestion... besides the fact that i am crazy - i already know that

 

[crazy guy]

yes, that's what i was trying to do, thank you

 

[1wlimo]

Thanks for moving the picture IuvABbeef,

OK better explination for you crazy guy,

Area 1 an 2 covered and all straw, area 3 out side and wider say 10 feet, then then area 3 outside again followed by areas 1 and 2 inside again. This increase air flow, reduces disease levels etc over a complete shed design like you have. If you retain your design then you need increase the space per cow so more like 140 squarefeet per cow.

 

[crazy guy]

ok. i can do it that way. do i still divide it in left and right side, or just keep it all together in one big space?
do i still have to pour concrete on areas 1 and 2 or i could get by with road rock?

 

[1wlimo]

ok. i can do it that way. do i still divide it in left and right side, or just keep it all together in one big space?
do i still have to pour concrete on areas 1 and 2 or i could get by with road rock?

Stick with the left and right so you get the feeding space. Areas 1 and 2 can be road rock, or any other draining surface you can clean, and the cows do not churn up.

 

[crazy guy]

ok. i can do it that way. do i still divide it in left and right side, or just keep it all together in one big space?
do i still have to pour concrete on areas 1 and 2 or i could get by with road rock?

Stick with the left and right so you get the feeding space. Areas 1 and 2 can be road rock, or any other draining surface you can clean, and the cows do not churn up.

couple days ago i was posting a tank you, apparently something happened and didn't go through fine, so now again:
thanks for your advice.