Barn design advice needed

[crazy guy]

i need some help to design a barn or something where i could keep cattle, if i decide to go for this.
I have no cattle currently, and i don't think i will ever have this much, but just for the ease of round numbers let's take 100 cows.
Would this be ok for them:
50 ft wide with 150 ft long pole barn(?). basically just a roof, around what i could build a "wall" out of straw bales (the square kind) for winter.
In the middle it would have a 10 ft wide section where it is possible to drive trough with a small tractor, with undivided feeding stalls on both sides all along.
This would cut the barn in two sections 20 ft wide 150 ft long, each holding 50 cows, and giving about 3ft room for a cow to access the feeding stall, if they all want to eat at the same time. The part towards the outside of the barn would be where would be some bedding, and they would lay to relax.
Is this enough? What should i change on it?

 

[Isomade]

I can't think of any reason why you would need to keep 100 cattle in a barn. Do you live in Antarctica by chance?

 

[crazy guy]

only three month of every year is like in antarctica around here
i don't really have a big pasture where i could keep them. and to do fencing on every 1-2 acre lot... is too much work. and some of these are very far away from each other (10+ miles). so i can't really move the cattle from pasture to pasture.
but i could build a barn on one of the lots, keep the cattle there, and make hay on the rest of the pastures and transport that to the cows.

but the "100 cows" was just a number. if it is more easy count with 30 cows and not 150 ft long, but 50 ft long barn. would that work?

 

[LRTX1]

So, you have several 1-2 acre lots each about 10 miles apart. You plan on bailing that hay and feeding it to cows in a barn/lot year round?

 

[Isomade]

only three month of every year is like in antarctica around here
i don't really have a big pasture where i could keep them. and to do fencing on every 1-2 acre lot... is too much work. and some of these are very far away from each other (10+ miles). so i can't really move the cattle from pasture to pasture.
but i could build a barn on one of the lots, keep the cattle there, and make hay on the rest of the pastures and transport that to the cows.

but the "100 cows" was just a number. if it is more easy count with 30 cows and not 150 ft long, but 50 ft long barn. would that work?

I cannot see any way you can run cattle on 1-2 acre lots and make a profit.

 

[expensive hobby]

Crazy guy- Just wondering where you live? I don't think that you need to keep your cows in a barn for the winter, but I often times think that I would like to have a barn to feed in for the winter. Kind of a dream area that I could use to keep some round bales under roof and feed in. For me I think that a concrete floor where the cows would feed would be ideal for staying out of the mud. Remember, this is just a dream for me and will probably never happen. The mud gets so bad here in the winter and I tear the heck out of one of my pastures while feeding out round bales. Sometimes I can't even get out there to feed because the fields are so bad. I plan my feeding with the freeze/thaw cycles. With concrete, I could scrape the manure away easily, and the cows will not need to waller around in mud to feed. Cows do not need to be kept in all winter, but a nice dry place to work them would be nice. What are your thoughts on this crazy guy? Feeding them out year round in a barn is kind of well "Crazy."

 

[crazy guy]

So, you have several 1-2 acre lots each about 10 miles apart. You plan on bailing that hay and feeding it to cows in a barn/lot year round?

yes, that is what i was thinking about.
there are some that are bigger, but i have nothing that is more than 10 acres.

the good part is that i have access to unlimited amounts of straw , whey, and salt for free.
straw only has to be baled and taken off the field, they even say thank you for talking it off my hand.
whey, the liquid kind, the by product from making cheese - they even deliver it for you, if you are willing to take it. (by the way, can that be feed to cows?)
salt, you have to go and pick it up.

 

[crazy guy]

only three month of every year is like in antarctica around here
i don't really have a big pasture where i could keep them. and to do fencing on every 1-2 acre lot... is too much work. and some of these are very far away from each other (10+ miles). so i can't really move the cattle from pasture to pasture.
but i could build a barn on one of the lots, keep the cattle there, and make hay on the rest of the pastures and transport that to the cows.

but the "100 cows" was just a number. if it is more easy count with 30 cows and not 150 ft long, but 50 ft long barn. would that work?

I cannot see any way you can run cattle on 1-2 acre lots and make a profit.

if i keep moving the cow around, yes that will be a pain in the ass, burning up lot of money.
but if i keep them at one place and keep bringing the hay there - even than it's a problem?
that is no good news
my only/biggest expense would be the fuel for the tractor to cut and bale the hay.

 

[crazy guy]

Crazy guy- Just wondering where you live? I don't think that you need to keep your cows in a barn for the winter, but I often times think that I would like to have a barn to feed in for the winter. Kind of a dream area that I could use to keep some round bales under roof and feed in. For me I think that a concrete floor where the cows would feed would be ideal for staying out of the mud. Remember, this is just a dream for me and will probably never happen. The mud gets so bad here in the winter and I tear the heck out of one of my pastures while feeding out round bales. Sometimes I can't even get out there to feed because the fields are so bad. I plan my feeding with the freeze/thaw cycles. With concrete, I could scrape the manure away easily, and the cows will not need to waller around in mud to feed. Cows do not need to be kept in all winter, but a nice dry place to work them would be nice. What are your thoughts on this crazy guy? Feeding them out year round in a barn is kind of well "Crazy."

well, yeah, that's why i chose that name... lol... i know my ideas are... "out there"
i am in easter europe. i mean my farm... will be... if there will be any.
right now i am in chicago area.
the reason i want to keep them under a roof, is very similar to yours - no mud.
i plan on having a small "pasture" next to it where the cows can go on a dry day for a walk, but i do not count on that as a place where they feed. best case scenario, is that i will have grass on it, but it's more likely that grass is gonna die out bc of the cows walking on it. but i plan on keeping them locked up in a barn on rainy days, so they won't make huge mud by walking on the "pasture".
i don't plan on having the floor made with concrete, only small rocks/ sand. local law says that barn floor has to be 4" thick concrete, so there is no seepage, and you also need a tank to collect all the manure, in a seepage free tank to store it till fall, when you take it and put it on the field. that is the reason i don't plan on having a wall, a side to the barn, bc legally i am not calling it a barn, "it's just a roof, where cattle go in if they want to". they can not make me pour concrete on the floor of something like that, otherwise that would be the same as asking me to pour concrete all over a pasture so manure won't seep into the ground. which is non sense.
i am thinking/hoping that sandy top layer will help the place dry.

in your case... how much can they eat in winter off of a pasture? bc if it is a significant amount, than, yeah, you do what you got to do. but if the grazing they do it's just a small amount of their diet, than i (i = the guy that doesn't have much clue about things) would keep them just on a small part of the pasture, feed them there, and not let them walk on most of the pasture, helping the grass regenerate and survive better for next year.

 

[expensive hobby]

With that many cows in such a "small" pasture, you will not have anything but dirt/mud. What little grass that does grow will be trampled or "dumped" on. My cows do try to "graze" in the winter but this depends on the snow. As soon as they see any green they eat what they can. I do winter them in a small pasture so as not to tear up the rest of my fields while feeding out bales. I would think that if you were to keep a bunch of cows in such a small area, you would just be asking for problems (diseases, health problems). Not knowing your exact situation, I hope that you can make it work, but is sure sounds "crazy." There are many others on here that know much more than I.......maybe they can point you in a better direction. I guess that it will not be so crazy if you can make it work. Right?

 

[crazy guy]

what is a safe number to count with? how many square feet of "barn" would i need per cow to be ok?
how much room would i need for "pasture", how many square feet per cow? again: i am not hoping that they will be grazing there, or get part of their diet from it, it's just for them to walk around and that kind of things.

 

[cross_7]

are you planning on a cow calf operation ?

 

[crazy guy]

eventually... sometimes in the future. but that is gonna be 2 years after i start. till then i plan on building some more barns or something.

 

[piedmontese]

with that size of pens and the amount u want to run u better not do cow/calf.too many new babys in too small of an area can lead to alot of sickness and believe me when u see ur babys dying ur gonna get sik of it real quick.either just run 5-10 cows or if u want to have more animals then buy feeders or stockers because what u r describing is really just a feedlot anyway.

 

[crazy guy]

yes, you are right. feedlot is the best word to describe it.
so if i buy 250-300 pound calf's, i could do fine in the above mentioned setup for about 2 years, till new calf's start coming, right?
but then i really need more room for them.
do i understand this right?

 

[Isomade]

yes, you are right. feedlot is the best word to describe it.
so if i buy 250-300 pound calf's, i could do fine in the above mentioned setup for about 2 years, till new calf's start coming, right?
but then i really need more room for them.
do i understand this right?

No

 

[crazy guy]

yes, you are right. feedlot is the best word to describe it.
so if i buy 250-300 pound calf's, i could do fine in the above mentioned setup for about 2 years, till new calf's start coming, right?
but then i really need more room for them.
do i understand this right?

No

ok
so what should i change to make it work?

 

[1wlimo]

Ok if you want your animals housed all year you need to change to a zero grazing system, so when the grass is growing you have a tractor with a mower on the front and a silage wagon on the rear and you go out every day and cut all the fresh feed your animals need. Then I would bemaking silage for the winter. That saves on doubleing up on machines, and while some use this method and recon that they can get heigher yeilds from their forage than by grazing it is a lot of tractor hours an fuel.

A cow and calf opperation is not sutiable so buy in and grow on your animas selling them for slaughter.

Take your shed and cut the middle out so that you have two facing lean too's where you have dry straw for your animals to sleep, and then you need a feed way of concreete for the animals to stand on, feed barrier, tractor way, feed barrier, feed way for animals to stand and eat, covered straw area. The straw area does not need concrete. That way you need 60 to 80 square feet per full grown animal


Better yet if you have whey and straw would it not be better to grow grain on the land and feed pigs?

 

[Jim62]

Given your restrictions on pastures, I would say you need to lower your sights a little bit--say to about 10 cows.

Tractor expense for making hay will definitely NOT be your only expense.

 

[ohiosteve]

I'd say start small and buy some quality calves and don't overcrowd them and you will learn as you go. Too many animals will make you crazy for real once they start having problems. Sick animals will take the fun right out of it. If a feedlot operation is what your"e going for you won't be having any calves. That's a whole other ballgame.