Banvel/dicamba

[Jogeephus]

We've traced D damage 13 miles.

Care to elaborate on this? What size application was the source that drifted 13 miles? I've sprayed within 100 yards of cotton and never had any problems.

It was July or August and put out by plane. It was awful on the damage it caused.
D absouatly cannot be put out here in any way what so ever without causing cotton damage.
In fact it's illegal after April 15th in this county.
Lot of other cases with it being traced for miles but I can't remember them as well. I was in direct line on this one.

Thanks, I can see it happening with a plane since you are treating so many acres so fast. I thought it used to be illegal in Georgia to apply herbicides with fixed wing aircraft but after reading the label I see where this must have been changed. I have no doubt 2,4-D can volatilize and toast cotton but I think most cattle producers wouldn't put out enough fast enough to create conditions like you speak. I've never had any trouble anyway but I will back off near cotton and leave a buffer because I do have concerns.

 

[nkotb]

Several different versions of Banvel/Dicamba, some more volatile than others. A drift reducer will not help/minimally help with actual volatilization. In parts of Kansas where cotton was tried, a large part of our issue was the fact that everyone is very dependent on 2,4-D, where it seemed you could have driven through the county with the lid off of a jug and at least curled most of the cotton within a few miles.

 

[jedstivers]

Care to elaborate on this? What size application was the source that drifted 13 miles? I've sprayed within 100 yards of cotton and never had any problems.

It was July or August and put out by plane. It was awful on the damage it caused.
D absouatly cannot be put out here in any way what so ever without causing cotton damage.
In fact it's illegal after April 15th in this county.
Lot of other cases with it being traced for miles but I can't remember them as well. I was in direct line on this one.

Thanks, I can see it happening with a plane since you are treating so many acres so fast. I thought it used to be illegal in Georgia to apply herbicides with fixed wing aircraft but after reading the label I see where this must have been changed. I have no doubt 2,4-D can volatilize and toast cotton but I think most cattle producers wouldn't put out enough fast enough to create conditions like you speak. I've never had any trouble anyway but I will back off near cotton and leave a buffer because I do have concerns.

It takes almost no D at all to mess up hundreds of acres of cotton.
One gallon can get hundreds of thousands of dollars of cotton.

 

[Jogeephus]

Never seen anything like you describe here but we only apply it with ground equipment and not planes. How much of this do you think is from aerial application of rice?

 

[greybeard]

Just stock up on Remedy when you are in Texas. Not restricted here. The big ag chem dist will probably have best prices but should be able to get it at TSC, Atwood's and other farm stores.

It's the 24-d in remedy that's the problem.
I was told dicamba won't volatilize.
After Jed's comment I did a search and he is correct it will gas up.
I didn't get much sprayed due the wind getting up.
The crops around are dicamba cotton and no other crops in the area, but I won't use it again.
I haven't found anything that'll stay put and not gas up

Start on Pg 51 if your county is one the list:
http://www.oda.state.ok.us/forms/cps/cpl.pdf

35:30-17-24.1. Restricted use areas
(a) Applications of products containing 2,4-D esters or dicamba as an active
ingredient to agricultural lands shall not be made in Greer, Harmon, and Kiowa
counties between 12:01 a.m. of May 1 of each calendar year through 11:59 p.m. of
October 15 of each calendar year except in accordance with the provisions of this
section.
(b) Applications of products containing 2,4-D, dicamba, picloram, triclopyr, or
clopyralid as an active ingredient to agricultural lands shall not be made in Jackson
and Tillman counties between 12:01 a.m. of May 1 of each calendar year through
11:59 p.m. of October 15 of each calendar year except in accordance with the
provisions of this section.
(c) Any person intending to apply any of the herbicides listed in subsection (a) or (b)
in the counties and during the times prohibited shall adhere to the following
procedure:
(1) The person shall notify the Department of the intent to apply herbicides listed
in subsection (a) or (b) prior to the application on a form provided by the
Department.
(2) The person shall file a report with the Department on a form provided by the
Department no later than seven (7) working days after the last application date
provided in the original notification of the herbicide use.
(d) Failure to comply with this section shall be a violation.
(e) All records and notifications required by this section shall be in addition to any
records required to be maintained by a commercial applicator pursuant to other rules.
52
(f) The provisions of this section shall not apply to applications of 2,4DB.

There may be more below that--I didn't look at all of it..

 

[Cross-7]

Did I say I sprayed dicamba ?
I meant I'd like to spray but it's against the law so I didn't spray, I was just wishing I could but I knew better

 

[GAonmymind]

Cross 7 :deadhorse:

 

[Cross-7]

Cross 7 :deadhorse:

Cross 7 :deadhorse:

Thats how I feel about the weeds
I'm going to sharpen my hoe and get busy.
I won't make a dent but it'll make me feel better to chop them down

 

[jedstivers]

Never seen anything like you describe here but we only apply it with ground equipment and not planes. How much of this do you think is from aerial application of rice?

It can't be applied by air after April 1. Can't go by ground after April 15.
No pilot will touch it now. The ones that did got schooled well. The time it was so bad on me was in the early 90's.
Been several smaller cases of ground rigs putting it out late and it is devastating too. A few miles can happen from a inversion.
We have inversion conditions daily.
Even a hand sprayer spot treating something will go hundreds of yards across a field.

 

[Bigfoot]

Could they make a 2 four d ready cotton? It's pretty hard on tobacco to. None of the coops around here will spray it for you after early spring.

 

[Jogeephus]

This is interesting to me. We have a lot of crops where its used and its often sprayed beside cotton or tobacco with care and respect and never by plane but I've never heard of any cotton kills like you guys suffered in Arkansas. I have seen damage on the edge of cotton fields where the guy spraying was going to fast and you could actually see the drift cross the line but never a kill like you describe. I have no doubt its a real threat but I wonder why the difference. Is it the weather patterns, humidity, larger fields or possibly all the forests we have that can serve as a buffers between fields.

I was interested enough to ask a friend who crop dusts and he said you'd have to be a fool to put 2,4-D out by plane so I wonder how much of these large damages aren't caused by aerial applicators spraying rice or being stupid. We have a similar problem with cotton defoliant where it will wax pecan trees just as they are bearing so in sensitive areas like this only ground equipment will be used and this solves that problem.

Until I understood what was going on I don't think I'd ever spray 2,4-D in an area like that.

 

[Bigfoot]

This is interesting to me. We have a lot of crops where its used and its often sprayed beside cotton or tobacco with care and respect and never by plane but I've never heard of any cotton kills like you guys suffered in Arkansas. I have seen damage on the edge of cotton fields where the guy spraying was going to fast and you could actually see the drift cross the line but never a kill like you describe. I have no doubt its a real threat but I wonder why the difference. Is it the weather patterns, humidity, larger fields or possibly all the forests we have that can serve as a buffers between fields.

I was interested enough to ask a friend who crop dusts and he said you'd have to be a fool to put 2,4-D out by plane so I wonder how much of these large damages aren't caused by aerial applicators spraying rice or being stupid. We have a similar problem with cotton defoliant where it will wax pecan trees just as they are bearing so in sensitive areas like this only ground equipment will be used and this solves that problem.

Until I understood what was going on I don't think I'd ever spray 2,4-D in an area like that.

I was at some meeting 2 or 3 years ago. They had aerial pictures of where some had drifted out across a hard wood forrest. You could plainly see where it had traveled for miles. I had heard about it all my life, but never dreamt it could go that far. It raised my respect level for it.

 

[Jogeephus]

I've heard about it all my life also but have never seen any major damages. I also could have sworn it was illegal to put out by plane but the label says otherwise. I've talked to a lot of people about this lately and no one here has ever seen large damage like the 13 mile deal. Most will say they've seen some damage on the edge of cotton fields that join peanuts or something like that but no one can say they've seen catastrophes. This makes me curious as to why. Larger fields maybe. More humidity? But I'm kind of leaning toward the aerial spraying of large fields or rice fields. If you look at irrigation systems and the water loss of the high altitude irrigation systems its not hard to visualize much of the 2,4-D never reaching the ground and just forming a cloud if it is sprayed to high. That's where I'm leaning but I don't know. Just know we don't have that kind of problem with it - BUT we are careful when we use it for this very reason.

 

[True Grit Farms]

The cotton farmers sure aren't worried about killing the deer or quail.

 

[Cross-7]

Lots of places around me that look like this.
Id like a little more shade but they have done a good job on them
I wonder how they keep the weeds out

 

[bird dog]

Spray it with grazonnext or surmount for two or three years in a row and most of your weed problems will go away. I had a place that was 70% broom weed, 20% croton, thistle and ragweed, 10% grass.
The first year got about 70% of it, the second about 70% of what was left and most of that was where I missed the first year. On the third year I was surprised and wondered if I even needed to spray. On year four I didn't and sold it to a young cowboy who wanted a "grass place"
It didn't have a lot of brush and that helped. Used Grazonext HL at about 1 1/2 pint/acre.

 

[Bigfoot]

Spray it with grazonnext or surmount for two or three years in a row and most of your weed problems will go away. I had a place that was 70% broom weed, 20% croton, thistle and ragweed, 10% grass.
The first year got about 70% of it, the second about 70% of what was left and most of that was where I missed the first year. On the third year I was surprised and wondered if I even needed to spray. On year four I didn't and sold it to a young cowboy who wanted a "grass place"
It didn't have a lot of brush and that helped. Used Grazonext HL at about 1 1/2 pint/acre.

Grazonnext is an amazing product.

 

[jedstivers]

Could they make a 2 four d ready cotton? It's pretty hard on tobacco to. None of the coops around here will spray it for you after early spring.

Already have it. Several friends have some this year and the D is working great and not moving. Killing really big pigweeds too.
Waiting on beans to be approved for use in China then they will release them.
It's going to be our last hope of getting pigweed under control and if we get them we better not let them get started again.
If it yields ok I'll have every acre of cotton next year in it.

 

[jedstivers]

I've heard about it all my life also but have never seen any major damages. I also could have sworn it was illegal to put out by plane but the label says otherwise. I've talked to a lot of people about this lately and no one here has ever seen large damage like the 13 mile deal. Most will say they've seen some damage on the edge of cotton fields that join peanuts or something like that but no one can say they've seen catastrophes. This makes me curious as to why. Larger fields maybe. More humidity? But I'm kind of leaning toward the aerial spraying of large fields or rice fields. If you look at irrigation systems and the water loss of the high altitude irrigation systems its not hard to visualize much of the 2,4-D never reaching the ground and just forming a cloud if it is sprayed to high. That's where I'm leaning but I don't know. Just know we don't have that kind of problem with it - BUT we are careful when we use it for this very reason.

Heard today of a case of D being traced 50 miles and doing damage.

 

[Jogeephus]

I've heard about it all my life also but have never seen any major damages. I also could have sworn it was illegal to put out by plane but the label says otherwise. I've talked to a lot of people about this lately and no one here has ever seen large damage like the 13 mile deal. Most will say they've seen some damage on the edge of cotton fields that join peanuts or something like that but no one can say they've seen catastrophes. This makes me curious as to why. Larger fields maybe. More humidity? But I'm kind of leaning toward the aerial spraying of large fields or rice fields. If you look at irrigation systems and the water loss of the high altitude irrigation systems its not hard to visualize much of the 2,4-D never reaching the ground and just forming a cloud if it is sprayed to high. That's where I'm leaning but I don't know. Just know we don't have that kind of problem with it - BUT we are careful when we use it for this very reason.

Heard today of a case of D being traced 50 miles and doing damage.

I'm glad it doesn't work that way here. Our problem seems to be liquid Sevin. I have a friend who crop dusts and he was accused of killing some bee hives eight miles away after he sprayed some blueberries with sevin.