Banding Issue

[inyati13]

I banded a calf yesterday. Born 10/19/14. So about 6 weeks old. I use the tri-bander with the surgical tube bands. This is the biggest calf I have banded. I band usually in the first week or two. The scrotum and testicles would not go through the opening. I put a halter on the calf, tied his head up tight, and tied his back legs together so he would not kick me in the face. I pulled the scrotum through, them worked each testicle down through the opening. I noticed the band did not close much.

He had his first tetanus toxoid shot 11/26/14. I gave a tetanus antitoxin shot at the time of banding.

My concern is two fold:

1. Since he has not had the follow-up dose of toxoid, is he at risk of a tetanus reaction before time to give the second toxoid?

2. What is the outcome likely with the band appearing to not provide enough constriction? Or is it likely to provide the constriction at times when his scrotum is not likely to be as drawn up?

 

[M.Magis]

I'm not vet, far from it. So this advice is worth what you paid.
But, I was fairly certain tetnus came through open wounds. If correct, you have some time to give a booster before the sack falls off.
And while the band may not appear tight enough, it is. It will keep constricting tighter and tighter as time goes on.

 

[inyati13]

I'm not vet, far from it. So this advice is worth what you paid.
But, I was fairly certain tetnus came through open wounds. If correct, you have some time to give a booster before the sack falls off.
And while the band may not appear tight enough, it is. It will keep constricting tighter and tighter as time goes on.

Thanks.

 

[Lucky_P]

Ron,
The TAT you gave at the time of band application will provide 'immediate' protection - but I'd still give the TT booster at the appropriate time.

MMagis - open wound is not necessary for tetanus - all that's required is an area of localized anaerobic conditions - like a banded scrotum, puncture wound, bruise, etc., and the presence of C.tetani spores. They're 'out there' - and, evidently, often 'in there' - just sitting in the animal's body, awaiting the right conditions to allow germination and growth.

Majority of tetanus cases I've seen in cattle over the past 30 years have been associated with banded bulls - both babies and big boys.
But, I had a case in one of my own calves, castrated by knife-cutting, and one last year, in a heifer - never did figure out what her injury was that allowed germination of the spores - and I was not, at that time, using a Clostridial bacterin/toxoid containing TT.

 

[dun]

The reason we went to the tri-bander years ago is becuase of some very large (fatty) scrotums. Had the same issue with the scrotum having to be fed through then each nut individuaslly even after going to the tri-bander. Haven;t had any issues, the nuts still fell off and they healed just fined. The band will continue to getsmaller as the tissue dies.

 

[M.Magis]

Ron,
MMagis - open wound is not necessary for tetanus - all that's required is an area of localized anaerobic conditions - like a banded scrotum, puncture wound, bruise, etc., and the presence of C.tetani spores. They're 'out there' - and, evidently, often 'in there' - just sitting in the animal's body, awaiting the right conditions to allow germination and growth.

.

Thank you, I didn't realize that.

 

[wbvs58]

Ron my recollection is that after the first tet toxoid you get a pretty good response after about 10 days and it peaks at about 4 weeks and then starts to come down again and then when the 2nd is given it bumps it up again and keeps it there in a plateau. If the 2nd is not given I think the protective levels are still there up to about 8-10 weeks.
I think with the band even though it may seem a bit loose initially it will provide enough restriction and the resulting swelling will make things tighter and will do the job. If it doesn't he will eventually grow into it.
Ken

,

 

[inyati13]

Ron my recollection is that after the first tet toxoid you get a pretty good response after about 10 days and it peaks at about 4 weeks and then starts to come down again and then when the 2nd is given it bumps it up again and keeps it there in a plateau. If the 2nd is not given I think the protective levels are still there up to about 8-10 weeks.
I think with the band even though it may seem a bit loose initially it will provide enough restriction and the resulting swelling will make things tighter and will do the job. If it doesn't he will eventually grow into it.
Ken

,

Thanks, Ken. I plan to give the second toxoid. I think it says 30 days after the first one but I should check that. I wonder if I could hit him with the second toxoid a bit early?

 

[Lucky_P]

Ron,
I've given the booster as soon as 10 days later in some situations; no harm, but may not be most effective ...the trials that were done to assure USDA/FDA, etc. of efficacy would have showed optimal response at the time stated on the label. Or, at least, those time frames met the requirements.

 

[inyati13]

Ron,
I've given the booster as soon as 10 days later in some situations; no harm, but may not be most effective ...the trials that were done to assure USDA/FDA, etc. of efficacy would have showed optimal response at the time stated on the label. Or, at least, those time frames met the requirements.

Thanks. He got the first toxiod 11/26 so ten days from that is getting close!

 

[inyati13]

Ron,
The TAT you gave at the time of band application will provide 'immediate' protection - but I'd still give the TT booster at the appropriate time.

MMagis - open wound is not necessary for tetanus - all that's required is an area of localized anaerobic conditions - like a banded scrotum, puncture wound, bruise, etc., and the presence of C.tetani spores. They're 'out there' - and, evidently, often 'in there' - just sitting in the animal's body, awaiting the right conditions to allow germination and growth.

Majority of tetanus cases I've seen in cattle over the past 30 years have been associated with banded bulls - both babies and big boys.
But, I had a case in one of my own calves, castrated by knife-cutting, and one last year, in a heifer - never did figure out what her injury was that allowed germination of the spores - and I was not, at that time, using a Clostridial bacterin/toxoid containing TT.

Does your Clostridial now contain a TT? What one are you using?

 

[Lucky_P]

Yes. Cavalry 9

 

[inyati13]

Ron,
I've given the booster as soon as 10 days later in some situations; no harm, but may not be most effective ...the trials that were done to assure USDA/FDA, etc. of efficacy would have showed optimal response at the time stated on the label. Or, at least, those time frames met the requirements.

Lucky,

Gave the second toxoid today. It has been six days since the antitoxin. It has been 12 days since the first toxoid.

Any thing else needed?

 

[Lucky_P]

Prob'ly not... but, it's not according to label directions, so I can't verify that everything would be good. If you've got the bacterin/toxoid on hand, and don't care to do it - you could give a 'booster' at the appropriate time frame stated on the label. That would probably be overkill... but with prices as they are now... cheap insurance.

 

[inyati13]

Prob'ly not... but, it's not according to label directions, so I can't verify that everything would be good. If you've got the bacterin/toxoid on hand, and don't care to do it - you could give a 'booster' at the appropriate time frame stated on the label. That would probably be overkill... but with prices as they are now... cheap insurance.

I thought the same thing. I use Colorado Serum which provides doses in individual vials. I also have his second Clostridial coming due about that time. Thanks.