Balancer Bull for hereford and charlios?

[3waycross]

alright so if i get an F-1 cow with my Hereford/Gelbvieh cross then what would be the best thing to breed to them? my thinking was just that i know i read on here and talked to some people saying that if u breed homo black Balancer bull to straight bred Hereford u will get black baldy s almost every time. since ill just be selling commercial maybe i should go with Gelbvieh cows and AI them to Hereford and buy a different breed of bull to use as a cleanup. maybe even another Gelbvieh? alot of people around my area have Angus cattle and im not wanting to go that route for sure. i wont be starting out with more then 10 cows.

I had to smile at your homo crossbred bull never heard a crossbred being homo.You do know there are no black Gel's, Simm's etc, this is Angus genetics. You maximize hybred vigor up to a 3 way cross after that all bets are off to many in the woodpile. To truely maximize hybred vigor you need a quarter Brimmer in there.
To truely max hybred vigor example would be a Char bull on F-1 Tigers.

You really want to open that can of worms on this thread. They are registered "purebred Gelbvieh's and @ 92% they are certainly pure enuf for F1 heterosis to be very effective. If he crosses them with herefords he will certainly get a majority of blk baldie calves and they will be better cows for his commercial operation than the straight herefords. Caustic you are sure smart enuf to know that. Why muddy the waters even worse for a beginner.

 

[double_B_ranch]

I had to smile at your homo crossbred bull never heard a crossbred being homo.You do know there are no black Gel's, Simm's etc, this is Angus genetics. You maximize hybred vigor up to a 3 way cross after that all bets are off to many in the woodpile.

My bad sorry still new to the whole genetics/breeding aspect of it. well i have a place where i can buy some good Hereford cattle at a decent price. i can also get some gelbveih heifers with good genetics also. okay and now i understand that if i breed a balancer bull (which consists of 2 breeds) to a hereford ( 1 breed) then try to breed agian then i got too many in the "woodpile".

They are registered "purebred Gelbvieh's and @ 92% they are certainly pure enuf for F1 heterosis to be very effective. If he crosses them with herefords he will certainly get a majority of blk baldie calves and they will be better cows for his commercial operation than the straight herefords

thank you 3 way cross that is what i was shooting for is the black white baldies. thank you for all the information. does anyone know of a good book or internet site that goes into more detailed information on genetics and crossing. anything i could learn on how to make my cattle herd better by breeding and getting the best genetics out of them would be great. thanks for all replies.

I am still torn between Gelbvieh and a Balancer bull. if i had all red Hereford cattle and bred them with a homo black Gelbvieh bull will i get black calves most the time? thank you all for all the information i really appreciate it just wanna make sure i start out right with my cattle and not have to backtrack with my herd half way through life.

 

[dun]

I had to smile at your homo crossbred bull never heard a crossbred being homo.You do know there are no black Gel's, Simm's etc, this is Angus genetics. You maximize hybred vigor up to a 3 way cross after that all bets are off to many in the woodpile.

My bad sorry still new to the whole genetics/breeding aspect of it. well i have a place where i can buy some good Hereford cattle at a decent price. i can also get some gelbveih heifers with good genetics also. okay and now i understand that if i breed a balancer bull (which consists of 2 breeds) to a hereford ( 1 breed) then try to breed agian then i got too many in the "woodpile".

They are registered "purebred Gelbvieh's and @ 92% they are certainly pure enuf for F1 heterosis to be very effective. If he crosses them with herefords he will certainly get a majority of blk baldie calves and they will be better cows for his commercial operation than the straight herefords

If you use a homozygous black bull you will get all black baldys out of Herefords. The offspring will be heterozygous black and there is a 50:50 chance you'll get a red calf UNLESS you use a homozygous black bull.
thank you 3 way cross that is what i was shooting for is the black white baldies. thank you for all the information. does anyone know of a good book or internet site that goes into more detailed information on genetics and crossing. anything i could learn on how to make my cattle herd better by breeding and getting the best genetics out of them would be great. thanks for all replies.

I am still torn between Gelbvieh and a Balancer bull. if i had all red Hereford cattle and bred them with a homo black Gelbvieh bull will i get black calves most the time? thank you all for all the information i really appreciate it just wanna make sure i start out right with my cattle and not have to backtrack with my herd half way through life.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I had to smile at your homo crossbred bull never heard a crossbred being homo.You do know there are no black Gel's, Simm's etc, this is Angus genetics. You maximize hybred vigor up to a 3 way cross after that all bets are off to many in the woodpile.

My bad sorry still new to the whole genetics/breeding aspect of it. well i have a place where i can buy some good Hereford cattle at a decent price. i can also get some gelbveih heifers with good genetics also. okay and now i understand that if i breed a balancer bull (which consists of 2 breeds) to a hereford ( 1 breed) then try to breed agian then i got too many in the "woodpile".

They are registered "purebred Gelbvieh's and @ 92% they are certainly pure enuf for F1 heterosis to be very effective. If he crosses them with herefords he will certainly get a majority of blk baldie calves and they will be better cows for his commercial operation than the straight herefords

thank you 3 way cross that is what i was shooting for is the black white baldies. thank you for all the information. does anyone know of a good book or internet site that goes into more detailed information on genetics and crossing. anything i could learn on how to make my cattle herd better by breeding and getting the best genetics out of them would be great. thanks for all replies.

I am still torn between Gelbvieh and a Balancer bull. if i had all red Hereford cattle and bred them with a homo black Gelbvieh bull will i get black calves most the time? thank you all for all the information i really appreciate it just wanna make sure i start out right with my cattle and not have to backtrack with my herd half way through life.

You need to find a good mentor in your area to help. Don't get hung up on the ad's and numbers, this is were a good mentor will help you. You could be headed for a train wreck, buy a bad cow and it hurt's the wrong bull is a diaster. I have Hereford cattle as well as good friend of mine he runs a Gelbvieh and I an Angus. His calves do no better than mine or weigh more at salebarn time. All I see that he did was paid more money to get the same product I am getting. I am not pushing Angus either as I despise the little beast, you just can't fight science of a crossbred system for raising terminal calves. Last week hauled 9 mix of red and black baldies 450 weights brought between 1.19 and 1.29 a pound heifers and steers. The point here is don't get totally hung up on color for a set of terminal calves you are selling by the pound you have a lot of options with a Hereford momma cow. A Brangus would truely maximize the Hybred vigor on a set calves out of Hereford cattle.

Now with all my rambling, you say you want to start out right. There are three esential breeds in the USA Angus, Hereford and Brahman. You will never go wrong running a Hereford momma and an Angus bull. The offspring will sale good as replacements and at the salebarn, you will get a higher percentage of live births out of this mating. You can't sell a dead calf.

 

[3waycross]

Not picking a fight Caustic but if you get out of the south a bit you will find that those breed numbers change quite a bit. No Brahman and Lots of Chars. Drive by a feedlot North of the Ok,Ks border and you won't see many humps but you will sure enuf see a bunch of white, cream and smokies.

Picking a bit of a fight, if you are weaning 450 lb calves off your Herefords, and your neighbor has a Gelbvieh bull doing the same then it sounds to me like you could both use a better bull regardless of the breed. Either that or a little more milk. BTW 450 to 500lb calves here brought $1.45 at the sale barn 10 days ago and they weren't very shiny calves. They were however the kind that as they say "gain weight on the trailer ride home". So what the he[[ do I know, maybe those light calves are the answer after all.

For what it's worth this thread might have gone a different direction if we knew WHERE the OP is going to do this operation. Unless he is in the south he probably doesn't need F1 Tigers.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Not picking a fight Caustic but if you get out of the south a bit you will find that those breed numbers change quite a bit. No Brahman and Lots of Chars. Drive by a feedlot North of the Ok,Ks border and you won't see many humps but you will sure enuf see a bunch of white, cream and smokies.

Picking a bit of a fight, if you are weaning 450 lb calves off your Herefords, and your neighbor has a Gelbvieh bull doing the same then it sounds to me like you could both use a better bull regardless of the breed. Either that or a little more milk. BTW 450 to 500lb calves here brought $1.45 at the sale barn 10 days ago and they weren't very shiny calves. They were however the kind that as they say "gain weight on the trailer ride home". So what the he[[ do I know, maybe those light calves are the answer after all.

For what it's worth this thread might have gone a different direction if we knew WHERE the OP is going to do this operation. Unless he is in the south he probably doesn't need F1 Tigers.

I didn't say I was weaning 450 weights, I said I hauled them to the salebarn just like about a thousand other people. Pulled them off the cows due to no winter pasture this year. That was the last of them. I usually don't see a problem carrying a wet cow on our winters this year I do. I would like to have held them to Jan. On the three way cross I was just stating fact the most hybred vigor is realized in an English/Cont./Brimmer cross.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

alright so if i get an F-1 cow with my Hereford/Gelbvieh cross then what would be the best thing to breed to them? my thinking was just that i know i read on here and talked to some people saying that if u breed homo black Balancer bull to straight bred Hereford u will get black baldy s almost every time. since ill just be selling commercial maybe i should go with Gelbvieh cows and AI them to Hereford and buy a different breed of bull to use as a cleanup. maybe even another Gelbvieh? alot of people around my area have Angus cattle and im not wanting to go that route for sure. i wont be starting out with more then 10 cows.

most of them probably did'nt either... but eventually succumbed to that extra 10-15 cents

 

[Stocker Steve]

I'm looking for black baldy calves out of the Hereford cattle another reason i was looking towards a balancer bull. any more advice or anyone that has a balancer bull?

-You will get baldy calves with more muscle.
-Temperment and size with be more variable than your herfs.
-I shipped the nervous heifers but I retained a couple that look like they are going to be bigger than I like.